Best outrageous claims of bullet/gun capabilities?

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Thread: Best outrageous claims of bullet/gun capabilities?

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array Andy W.'s Avatar
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    " A 38 special will just make a fat boy mad".
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  3. #47
    Member Array ShadeAngel's Avatar
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    I am so tired of hearing how everything from .45 to a .22 LR and especially a .223 "TUMBLE" as soon as they leave the barrel... gah
    "You can't shake the devils hand and say you were only kidding"

  4. #48
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    I've heard 'em all, but the "shoots through an engine block" one seems to crop up quite a bit. Since almost all handgun rounds and many rifle rounds have a very hard time penetrating a windshield or a car door, it would seem obvious that NO traditional firearm could possibly penetrate through the wall of metal that is an engine block… (P.S. I tried it with .50 cal API, on small, rusted out cars that had many of their engine parts stolen…still couldn’t get reliable penetration through any of the “meaty” parts.)

    I was also told that 5.56x45 could be fired in a 7.62x39 (but not vice versa), and that this was an intentional design by the Soviets so that they could use our ammo... The fact that the 7.62x39 predates the 5.56x45 by a good margin seems not to matter - apparently those Russkies had some real good intel, and knew what caliber we were going to adopt some 20 years before we did...

    Of all the calibers, the .45ACP is awash in the most BS stories, in my experience. The old "shoot 'em in the pinky and they'll fly back 50 meters and be dead before they hit the ground" one is very common, along with just about every other exaggeration, hyperbole, and downright horse pucky you can imagine.

    Second to the .45 must be the shotgun, which, as anyone who has ever watched TV can tell you, will kill everything in a 60 degree arc in front of it out to 500 meters. All that, with at least 20 rounds on tap and no recoil... And, of course, “you don’t even gotta aim it!”

    The most egregious Hollywood examples of "***?" that immediately came to mind are from that Chuck Norris classic, "Invasion USA." This is the one where the BG fires 7 rounds from a single LAW rocket launcher, the micro-Uzis have 10,000 round magazines, and (the piece de resistance), old Chuck fires two rounds from his M203 in about 0.25 seconds. Good stuff, to be sure.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeAngel View Post
    I am so tired of hearing how everything from .45 to a .22 LR and especially a .223 "TUMBLE" as soon as they leave the barrel... gah
    Well, shoot a long, heavy 5.56 (say, the M855 62gr military ball)round through a barrel with a loose twist (say, an M16A1 with a 1:12 twist rate), and it will, in fact, tumble in flight. Usually, the rounds are about 90 degrees off axis at 25m - making nice triangular holes in your zero targets!
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  6. #50
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    And, just for fun....

    From Johnny Dangerously: "It's an .88 Magnum. It shoots through schools."
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fragman View Post
    'When I buy this SIG, I won't want to buy another gun again....'
    ...and except another SIG

    ...and another SIG

    ...and another SIG
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    And, just for fun....

    From Johnny Dangerously: "It's an .88 Magnum. It shoots through schools."
    I love that movie! LOL

    My father hung me on a hook once, Johnny. Once!

  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Well, shoot a long, heavy 5.56 (say, the M855 62gr military ball)round through a barrel with a loose twist (say, an M16A1 with a 1:12 twist rate), and it will, in fact, tumble in flight. Usually, the rounds are about 90 degrees off axis at 25m - making nice triangular holes in your zero targets!
    I suspect it was designed that way to circumvent the Hague convention about expanding bullets certainly the Vietnam era bullet made a mess out of the bg. The ballistics of that round was that there was a fair amount of yaw and precision ( rotation about the forward axis of flight) hitting a blade of grass would cause it to tumble ...making it a devastating short range weapon system in a jungle environment. later on they changed the rifling and bullets so that the redesigned guns had better long range performance and the yaw was gone. There was a fair amount of speculation in the day that the design was intentional as the tissue damge was more sever with a tumbled bullet ballistic. The m 16 was a product of the Kinetic energy school of design little bullets moving at transonic speed big blast wave in gelatin. there were reports of blast injury lateral to the permanent wound channel ie broken bones and stripped blood vessels from the blast( not hearsay I have the medical reports I used to teach ballestics to the med students)

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo93 View Post
    I suspect it was designed that way to circumvent the Hague convention about expanding bullets certainly the Vietnam era bullet made a mess out of the bg. The ballistics of that round was that there was a fair amount of yaw and precision ( rotation about the forward axis of flight) hitting a blade of grass would cause it to tumble ...making it a devastating short range weapon system in a jungle environment. later on they changed the rifling and bullets so that the redesigned guns had better long range performance and the yaw was gone. There was a fair amount of speculation in the day that the design was intentional as the tissue damge was more sever with a tumbled bullet ballistic. The m 16 was a product of the Kinetic energy school of design little bullets moving at transonic speed big blast wave in gelatin. there were reports of blast injury lateral to the permanent wound channel ie broken bones and stripped blood vessels from the blast( not hearsay I have the medical reports I used to teach ballestics to the med students)
    We're talking yaw in flight here, not after impact. The "slow" rifling twist rate of the M16A1 just can't stabilize heavy bullets, so they don't remain point-forward during flight.

    As you surely know, all spitzer-type bullets want to fly with the butt end forward, because that is where the mass is... We impart spin on the round to keep it point first, and defeat this natural impulse. Once this spin is interfered with (by hitting a dense medium like water, flesh, etc), or if there is insufficient spin in the first place (like in the heavy bullet/slow rate of twist example above), all spitzer-types will yaw in an attempt to get the heavy end forward. This is by no means unique to the 5.56x45 round, but it certainly is pronounced - especially in the lighter bullet weights. As such, I doubt it was a planned wounding agent, but rather a happy accident that the 55gr M193 round was such a spectacular "tumbler" (and I also dislike that word, due to all the misinformation surrounding it) in flesh.

    I only brought up the M855 round in the 1:12 rate barrels because I experienced it first hand. One National Guard unit I was in was still using M16A1s when the only ammo available was M855. All of our shooters were getting the nice triangular holes in the 25m targets, and we had a heck of a time getting everyone qualified out to 300m. POA/POI changes were in the FEET at that range, and nearly unpredictable. It was a frustrating, if informative, lesson in stabilization factors.

    (Note: Of course, expanding bullets defeat the yaw effect by changing the shape of the bullet, so the "normal" rules of yaw don't always apply.)
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  11. #55
    Member Array ShadeAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    We're talking yaw in flight here, not after impact. The "slow" rifling twist rate of the M16A1 just can't stabilize heavy bullets, so they don't remain point-forward during flight.

    As you surely know, all spitzer-type bullets want to fly with the butt end forward, because that is where the mass is... We impart spin on the round to keep it point first, and defeat this natural impulse. Once this spin is interfered with (by hitting a dense medium like water, flesh, etc), or if there is insufficient spin in the first place (like in the heavy bullet/slow rate of twist example above), all spitzer-types will yaw in an attempt to get the heavy end forward. This is by no means unique to the 5.56x45 round, but it certainly is pronounced - especially in the lighter bullet weights. As such, I doubt it was a planned wounding agent, but rather a happy accident that the 55gr M193 round was such a spectacular "tumbler" (and I also dislike that word, due to all the misinformation surrounding it) in flesh.

    I only brought up the M855 round in the 1:12 rate barrels because I experienced it first hand. One National Guard unit I was in was still using M16A1s when the only ammo available was M855. All of our shooters were getting the nice triangular holes in the 25m targets, and we had a heck of a time getting everyone qualified out to 300m. POA/POI changes were in the FEET at that range, and nearly unpredictable. It was a frustrating, if informative, lesson in stabilization factors.

    (Note: Of course, expanding bullets defeat the yaw effect by changing the shape of the bullet, so the "normal" rules of yaw don't always apply.)
    Exactly! I understand that with out enough spin some bullets will start to tumble in flight, what I am always amazed to hear is how the bullet tumbles end over end like a throwing knife and that is what makes it so deadly...
    "You can't shake the devils hand and say you were only kidding"

  12. #56
    Member Array turbo93's Avatar
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    yes opfor tumble in flight was what I understood as well. The reason this was thought to be importent was entrance energy - exit energy = wounding energy. A bullet impacting sideways would slow quicker yielding a slower exit energy and therefore more wounding energy. The vietnam era bullet also tended to shred despite the FMJ and this led to a devestating exit wound almost like a shot gun blast at exit as well as mulitiple wounding fragments. The original 5.56 round was a very nasty tissue destroyer.

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeAngel View Post
    Exactly! I understand that with out enough spin some bullets will start to tumble in flight, what I am always amazed to hear is how the bullet tumbles end over end like a throwing knife and that is what makes it so deadly...
    As I understand it, bullets tend to yaw only until they reach their natural point of stabilization, i.e. butt forward in this case.

    The yaw effect in flesh actually can be a good wounding agent, as it creates a wider wound channel, can cause wildly off-angle movement of the bullet, and can (in some cases) lead to fragmentation as the bullet "spins itself apart." This is apparently fairly common in the 5.56 round, but it takes a lot of velocity and sufficient time in the dense medium (flesh) to make it happen. Lose too much of either, and you lose the fragmentation effect. (The widely publicised dissatisfaction of some operators during Operation: Gothic Serpent - the Black Hawk Down firefight - is thought to be due to a combination of the "new," heavier 62gr bullet, the shorter barrel lengths many of the operators were using (causing a loss of velocity), and the nature of the targets - most Somalis were just too thin to allow enough time in the target for yaw/fragmentation to occur).

    But I think I've strayed far enough off topic... I think I'll go home and get my ceramic Glock out of the safe, take it though an airport metal detector, shoot a 9mm hole in the skin of an aircraft in flight and cause such explosive decompression that it sucks a human being through the hole....
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo93 View Post
    yes opfor tumble in flight was what I understood as well. The reason this was thought to be importent was entrance energy - exit energy = wounding energy. A bullet impacting sideways would slow quicker yielding a slower exit energy and therefore more wounding energy. The vietnam era bullet also tended to shred despite the FMJ and this led to a devestating exit wound almost like a shot gun blast at exit as well as mulitiple wounding fragments. The original 5.56 round was a very nasty tissue destroyer.
    I've never personally experienced or read about the M193 round yawing in flight. The M16A1 was perfectly capable of stabilizing the 55gr round.

    IMO, the loss of accuracy (and energy) from a bullet yawing in flight MORE then counters any increased wounding effects a sideways impact may deliver. If it yaws once it hits, great, it is certainly a force multiplier. In flight, however, it is a baaaaaaaad idea.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jualdeaux View Post

    My father hung me on a hook once, Johnny. Once!
    +1
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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    Signed: Me!

  16. #60
    Member Array GotSig?'s Avatar
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    I love how magsafe ammo will turn a .380 into a .45.
    كافر(Infidel)
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
    Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, Aphorism 146
    German philosopher (1844 - 1900)

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