What do you know, this gun really did kill, no human required

This is a discussion on What do you know, this gun really did kill, no human required within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071013...t_071013103042 Out-of-control gun to blame for 9 soldiers' death in SAfrica: army Sat Oct 13, 6:30 AM ET JOHANNESBURG (AFP) - An out-of-control anti-aircraft gun ...

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Thread: What do you know, this gun really did kill, no human required

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    What do you know, this gun really did kill, no human required

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071013...t_071013103042

    Out-of-control gun to blame for 9 soldiers' death in SAfrica: army

    Sat Oct 13, 6:30 AM ET

    JOHANNESBURG (AFP) - An out-of-control anti-aircraft gun which malfunctioned before a military training exercise was to blame for the death of nine South African soldiers, an army spokesman said Saturday.

    The nine were shot and killed and 15 others were injured on Friday during an annual military exercise at Lohatla Army Battle School in the Northern Cape province, in one of South Africa's worst military accidents in years.

    South African National Defence Force spokesman Brigadier-General Kwena Mangope said something mechanical appeared to have gone awry with the computerised 35mm MK5 anti-aircraft twin barreled gun.

    "It was a mechanical hitch that caused the accident, we believe," he said adding that the gun had "opened fire uncontrollably, killing and injuring the soldiers."

    The accident took place during a live-fire exercise as part of Exercise Seboka, an annual joint military exercise involving around 5,000 servicemen and women from the army, airforce and navy.

    One of the deceased soldiers was a woman, as were five of those injured.

    Mangope said the names of the people killed being released to their families, and it would later be determine when they would be buried
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
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    Twin 35mm computer controlled guns...

    Various nations use these twin barrel 35mm antiaircraft guns these days. They are heavy and mounted on ships or tanks, and their fire is directed by radar and a computer. The Oerlikon guns from Germany are the classics of the type. Here they are mounted on a tank:


  4. #3
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    ... something mechanical appeared to have gone awry with the computerised 35mm MK5 anti-aircraft twin barreled gun.

    "It was a mechanical hitch that caused the accident, we believe," he said adding that the gun had "opened fire uncontrollably, killing and injuring the soldiers."
    It will be interesting to hear what ultimately was the cause, once the unexplained "mechanical hitch" is found. Hair-trigger setting, perhaps? Scary, on a 35mm, quad, computer-controlled weapon. Muzzle control, muzzle control, muzzle control.
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    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
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    For once my knowledge comes in handy -

    That is a Gepard, not a tank. Ha ha!

    No failure is mechanical. Someone is supposed to inspect and maintain that weapon, and they did a bad job of it, and people are dead because of it.

    Austin

  6. #5
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    On belt-fed weapons, especially that fire from open bolts like the M249 it is possible to have a "runaway gun", in which something causes the weapon to continue firing after the trigger is released, until the belt runs dry or is broken.

    I've never operated a 35mm anti-aircraft weapon, but that is just a thought.
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    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    It is computerizad. Computers always fail at somepoint.
    They will probably blame it on a computer virus, or someone had a magnetized screwdriver to close to a circuit board and it caused a static discharge that made the gun fire.

    One Magnitized screwdriver can take down a computerized phone office. A computer glich caused one of the floating bridges to open during rush hour killing some of the comuters here in Washington.

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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    That is very sad. It must have been a horrific scene there.

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    Distinguished Member Array Ghettokracker71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    That is very sad. It must have been a horrific scene there.
    May the R.I.P.

    Unfornutately due to ones carelessness,these poor people have lost their lives,and among other things,more bad gun publicity


    "To blame a gun for a mans decision is to foolishly attribute free will to an inanimate object"- Colion Noir.

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    Senior Member Array cmidkiff's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Cooper
    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (or kill)
    That weapon had a live round in it... _Someone_ was responsible for it.
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    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    This is why you should never carry a computerised 35mm MK5 anti-aircraft twin barreled gun.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

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    Senior Member Array rabywk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aus71383 View Post
    For once my knowledge comes in handy -

    That is a Gepard, not a tank. Ha ha!

    No failure is mechanical. Someone is supposed to inspect and maintain that weapon, and they did a bad job of it, and people are dead because of it.

    Austin
    +1. I have to totally agree with you on this one
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    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    As stated it had a live round in it and it was pointed at people. There may have been a completely random and unpredictable malfunction that could not have been prevented by maintainence. Undoubtably that COULD have happenned.

    Somebody though made the decision to point this thing at a group of people while it was loaded.

    Musketeer's analyisis... Accidental Discharge due to mechanical failure (assuming the original report correct). Death and injury the direct responsult of unsafe behaviour of "negligent manslaughter" proportions.

    Machines fail. Firearms safety rules exists to eliminate injury when that happens.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obxned View Post
    This is why you should never carry a computerised 35mm MK5 anti-aircraft twin barreled gun.
    Should we call for a ban on civilian ownership of these weapons?

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    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    Somebody though made the decision to point this thing at a group of people while it was loaded.
    Actually, a computer decides where it is pointed. A human is supposed to be in the loop, but situational awareness and orientation is difficult inside an armored vehicle. Those guns also move FAST, much faster than a regular tank turret rotates.

    IIRC they had an issue with the old SGT YORK system where the computer locked up on some bleachers wherein sat a bunch of big-wigs observing the radar test. The computer should have ignored the bleachers because they weren't moving. There was, however, a mechanical lockout that prevented the weapons from depressing far enough to hit a ground target.

    Something similar may have happened here.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

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