Are Glocks and XDs a flawed design due pulling the trigger before dissassembly

This is a discussion on Are Glocks and XDs a flawed design due pulling the trigger before dissassembly within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Tangle Here's what I'm talking about. After 9-11 many average people bought guns and probably haven't looked at them since. Then some ...

View Poll Results: Are Glocks and XDs a flawed design (pulling trigger to disassemble)

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  • What's a Glock or XD?

    0 0%
  • Yes, this is unsafe and should be changed.

    19 13.10%
  • No, your safety is in your head and following the 4 rules.

    115 79.31%
  • Never had one, maybe never will.

    11 7.59%
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Thread: Are Glocks and XDs a flawed design due pulling the trigger before dissassembly

  1. #61
    JT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Here's what I'm talking about. After 9-11 many average people bought guns and probably haven't looked at them since. Then some one says you should inspect or clean the gun and so they pull out their Glock or XD to do that. They think they remember exactly how to do it but they can't get the slide to come off. Then they remember you have to pull the trigger. What happens? Well, if due to their ignorance (lack of knowledge) there was a round in the chamber, the gun fires.

    Let's do the same scenario with a Beretta, Sig, H&K, or 1911. They pull the slide off and discover the round in the chamber. They dump it out and think, "Wow, how'd that get in there!". But there's no UD.
    So instead of having a negligent discharge when they pull the trigger on their Glock or XD prior to field stripping it, they have one with their Beretta, Sig, H&K, or 1911 while trying to field strip it? Itís dangerous to field strip and clean any loaded weapon. Maybe with the Glock or XD they at least had it pointed in a safe direction when they pulled the trigger instead of having it aimed at their head or groin while trying to fieldstrip it. At least with the Glock or XD they get their negligent discharge over with early before they start wrestling with it.
    Blessed be the Lord my rock who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle. Psalm 144:1

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  3. #62
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    S3ymour,

    Good points. But even with good one-time training the danger remains. They've learned correctly, but due to "you lose what you don't use" phenomenom, over time, the gun owner that rarely thinks of his gun, much less refreshes himself in it's manual of arms, simply loses details. Then he decides to do something with his gun and leaves out that one important step.

    We have to concede, that not every gun is suitable for everyone, nor would it be reasonable to design a gun for the least common denominator so to speak. I think a 1911 is not appropriate for casual gun owners, nor Glock, nor M&P, well, most any semi-auto can be added to the list.

    That leaves the revolver. Very simple manual of arms, no field stripping issues, no safeties to understand, no bullets hidden in chambers, very easy to determine if it's loaded or not. No need to pull the trigger AT ALL except to intentionally shoot it.

    In fact, when I get to be President....
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  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by JT View Post
    So instead of having a negligent discharge when they pull the trigger on their Glock or XD prior to field stripping it, they have one with their Beretta, Sig, H&K, or 1911 while trying to field strip it? Itís dangerous to field strip and clean any loaded weapon. Maybe with the Glock or XD they at least had it pointed in a safe direction when they pulled the trigger instead of having it aimed at their head or groin while trying to fieldstrip it. At least with the Glock or XD they get their negligent discharge over with early before they start wrestling with it.
    If they pull the trigger with a round in the chamber, it's gonna fire. If they remove the slide with a round in the chamber, the chances of a discharge are massively reduced. It's highly unlikely to discharge.

    It's much more likely that the round will simply fall out of the chamber.
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  5. #64
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    I agree with you about the revolver. I think they are definitely the best option for the casual gun owner who is not going to put much time into training with it.
    Blessed be the Lord my rock who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle. Psalm 144:1

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  6. #65
    JT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    If they pull the trigger with a round in the chamber, it's gonna fire. If they remove the slide with a round in the chamber, the chances of a discharge are massively reduced. It's highly unlikely to discharge.

    It's much more likely that the round will simply fall out of the chamber.
    If they get the slide off. That can often be difficult for the inexperienced.

    I agree that if they don't clear the weapon a ND is more likely with a Glock or XD, since they eventually have to pull the trigger to get it off. My point was it could be even worse consequences with another handgun. Picture the inexperienced gun owner wrestling to get the slide off, waving the muzzled all over the place, including at themselves.

    Bottom line, any handgun is very dangerous to field strip if you don't clear it first. Thatís why I donít believe Glocks and XDs have a faulty design.
    Blessed be the Lord my rock who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle. Psalm 144:1

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  7. #66
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    Design flaw is a little strong, more like a design weakness. It really shoud be fixed.
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  8. #67
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    Even with a revolver there are risks. The point is that people should never buy a gun and stick it on a shelf without ever training with it. Even those of us who carry should take every opportunity to train as often as we can. I can't speak for everyone but my opinion is that every gun owner should practice on a regular basis. About a month ago my wife and I were at another couples house for dinner. During dinner we got to talking about personal safety, and home protection. My friend, pointed out that he had a gun, with a lock on it in his bedside drawer and a loaded magazine right next to it. When I asked him what kind of pistol it was he replied "I dunno".

    From there I invited him out to go shooting with me, so that he can learn how to handle the gun as he didn't even know where the safety was, let alone how to strip it down and clean it. He has yet to take me up on my offer even though I shoot every other weekend. Anyways, my point is that every gun, is only as safe as the person behind it. If a new person wants to intimately know their gun, they will read the manual, take courses, and ask questions to maintain their knowledge and safety.

    If a person is not interested in that, bad stuff is probably gonna happen. I used to carry a Browning hi-power, and changing over to my xd sc was night and day, but the basics aren't. Every gun should be treated as loaded. Before cleaning, check for a round in the chamber. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. Only put your finger on the trigger when you mean to pull it. Rules don't always keep us safe, nor does common sense, but they sure do help.

  9. #68
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    I don’t think the Glock design is faulty or deficient in the least. No, I agree it probably isn’t the best choice for someone unfamiliar with handguns and neither is the 1911. Neither of these pistols suffers fools.

    But by the same token it really doesn’t matter what firearm a person is handling if they don’t know if there is a round in the chamber and make no effort to correct that lack of knowledge by visually checking then sooner or later they are going to have a problem.

    I’m sorry but if you don’t have enough gun knowledge to clear a weapon prior to cleaning it then you probably should stick to carrying a rock.
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    +1 on carrying a rock.

  11. #70
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    You surely don't think the majority of gun owners are knowledgeable of their gun? Would you say the majority buy a gun and put on and wear it or put it in a drawer some place and forget about it?

    So do you think a Glock would be safer or less safe if the slide could be removed without pulling the trigger?
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  12. #71
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    People who carry, use and care for their firearms, are responsible for their own safety and for the safety of others.
    If they obey the basic ruleís of firearmís handling, there should never be a problem, as someone said already ĒOperator stupidity at this level is not a design flawĒ

    We need to condition ourselves to do thingís in the correct order.

    Then there will be no problem & no Negligent discharge
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  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by S3ymour View Post
    It had the grip safety, but there was no thumb safety. On gunsand ammo combat tactics magazine page 77, John Brownings personal 1911 a model 1910 prototype, serial number 3 with grip safety but no thumb safety.
    That's correct, it was a Model 1910, it did not become the Model 1911 until the thumb safety was added.
    What so many people seem to not know is the fact that John Browning designed the pistol for the military, not the civilian market, it was meant to be carried with the hammer down on an empty chamber. The reason the thumb safety was added was due to the Cavalry requesting some sort of safety be added that would allow the mounted trooper a safe way to carry the pistol until he could dismount and place the pistol back into the condition called for in the manual, hammer down on an empty chamber. Browning had been using the grip safety on several designs since at least 1903.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    The Phillipino hitman, referenced in an episode of Miami Vice, who carried a 1911 pinned and the thumb safety removed
    Are you referring to the episode (Calderone's Return: Part 1) in which Jim Zubiena played the Argentinean assassin?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOaGg1nXhgg&NR=1

    One of my favorites.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

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  15. #74
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    When my old department switched for the 9mm to the .40 we switched from Beretta to Glock. We actually made it to the second day of transition training before we had our first ND at the cleaning table.
    Personally I don't like the design. I will not own one. I will not own a Ruger P series either though I really enjoy shooting them. I will not own a Ruger because I wont stick my finger into the ejection port to flip that tab down to strip them. I have seen a finger that a slide closed on, not pretty. I am not saying either one is a "bad" design, just acknowledging that "stuff happens" and there are plenty of designs out there where it is less likely to happen to me. None of the previously mentioned pistols have any qualities I find so endearing that it is worth it to me to to take that miniscule additional risk.
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  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duisburg View Post
    If I want true Browning design I'll go with the Hipower and bypass the Colt's version of it regardless of caliber.
    Colt's version was John Browning's version.

    Colt has historically bullied brilliant gun designers and in the case of Stoner, his employer out of a military contract of the Ar-15 and Ar-10 only to watch Armalite file bankruptcy and then buy the Ar-15 design for a steal, leave out the chrome gas system, leave out the cleaning system and watch as GI's bite the bullet. This is why out of principle I will never buy a Colt AR, revolver (S&W improved the revolver design and added cartridges after making them) or a 1911 (because the HiPower is tops).
    Not exactly.

    In 1959, Fairchild Aircraft Corp (the parent company of Armalite), being disappointed with the development of the AR-15, sold all rights for this design to Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company. In 1960, Eugene Stoner left Armalite and joined Colt. The US Army replaced the originally specified DuPont IMR powder with standard ball powder, used in 7.62x51mm NATO ammunition, the ball powder produced much more fouling. Colt was told to "leave out the chrome gas system" by the Department of Defense, these brilliant ideas came from Secretary of Defense, Robert Strange McNamara, not Colt.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
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