Microstamping news: STI Stopping Sales in Cali.: MERGED - Page 2

Microstamping news: STI Stopping Sales in Cali.: MERGED

This is a discussion on Microstamping news: STI Stopping Sales in Cali.: MERGED within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Hopefully all companies will cease selling in California to everyone. Than maybe the laws will change, not until....

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Thread: Microstamping news: STI Stopping Sales in Cali.: MERGED

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    Hopefully all companies will cease selling in California to everyone. Than maybe the laws will change, not until.
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  2. #17
    Member Array SCGunGuy's Avatar
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    If I misunderstood you, I apologize. When you said "In CA for mfrs. to give up on that state Barrett style would mean those citizens in that state are to be left in the lurch with nothing but sticks, stones, and used market guns." I understood you to mean that LE would have guns but other citizens would not. My thinking is that if all manufacturer's refuse to sell, including to LE, then sooner rather than later the CA legislature will come around, as politicians are very fond of being protected by heavily armed police while not caring about the rest of us.

    And, when you said "I hope mfrs. do not go the routs of STI and instead choose to comply _and_ actively track results of as much as related to future crime reduction (crimes actually solved by this means) and to later lobby legislature as a coalition to in the future end this requirement." that you meant that if firearms makers gather data that shows that the requirement solves few, if any, crimes, that the politicians will be persuaded to drop the requirement. That's why I responded that antis have never cared about facts, as the facts have long been clear: gun control doesn't work except to disarm law-abiding citizens. Anti-gun politicians don't care. They have an agenda to push, facts be damned.

    As to makers complying and thereby reducing the # of guns available on the black market, that's bunk. Criminals will get guns no matter if it's legal to sell them or not. The only people penalized will be law-abiding citizens.

    The answer is not to go along w/ the anti's wishes by asking "how high?" when told to "Jump!" by the state legislature. The answer is to beat them at their game, and telling them "You won't let us sell guns to citizens unless we comply with your laundry list of requirements, but you want us to sell to your police forces guns not available to everyday Joes? I don't think so. This is a free country, and we are exercising some of that freedom in this fashion: Take your "list" and stick it where the sun don't shine. Go jump in a lake while you're at it. We will no longer sell any products, from holsters to spare parts to weapons, to any law enforcement agency or officer in your state until such time as you get a clue and honor your citizens' right to self-defense by removing all your illogical restrictions on what your "serfs" may buy."

    If Colt, Armalite, Savage, FN, Ruger, S&W, Glock, Springfield, H&K, etc. all did this, and CA agencies saw their weapons becoming unserviceable while criminals continued to arm up, the legislators would feel heat like they've never dreamed of.

    Idealistic and unrealistic? Probably. But, it's better than the alternative, IMO.


    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    SCG,

    The LEO and military markets have a wide range of tools and products available to them, always have and always will regardless of the consumer market and consumer applicable laws & regulations.

    I'd said nothing about "facts" and antis (?).

    As to opting out of selling to the state that will only steel legislators resistance to change their views, even when they are later proven to be obviously wrong. The situation with Maryland is a direct example of this.
    Meanwhile while state legislature and manufacturers are playing a game of who'll blink first it is we the people who are left to hold the bag, and in some folks cases they are body bags be they anti or not.

    If I were Mr. STI and assuming compliance to this new requirement is as the antis say an inexpensive and simple/easy application then I'd do just that and I'd for CA buyers include with every product sold (not just guns but accessory items too) an official statement of our position on this asinine legislative requirement and I as Mr. STi/CEO would sign my name to it on company letterhead. Further in that letter I would encourage the purchaser to get vocal in expressing their issue with this legislation appraising them of the situation in the event that single buyer might not know as much is in play and become law.

    Rather than giving up on the market and the people there in, my show of defiance would be to fight and counter the actions of the antis who got this baloney law in place to start.
    What they the antis want is for mfrs. to leave their market and thus reduce potential numbers of weapons sold to which by extension reduces the numbers of guns on the so called 'street' (in criminal hands). STI and others who have/will do same are in effect supporting the ultimate desire of those the antis.

    - Janq

  3. #18
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    "This law is not going to stop criminals, it is only going to hurt law-abiding citizens in the state," STI's Pauletta Skinner told Bullet Points. "We felt like we had to take a stand against this law."
    All I can say is ''kudos'' - there is a need to take a stand. Tho darned hard on the legitimate folks who want a particular handgun there.

    The whole thing is a total joke IMO - just another nail in the casket of gun control.
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  4. #19
    Member Array *SA-XD4ME*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    BUT, it does show the politicians that there are other ways to legislate the guns out of their state...

    I don't know if I should applaud STI, or cry.
    oh, man! this is some scary stuff. this was my immediate thought as well.

  5. #20
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    Its good to know firearm companies are doing this to show what nonsense their gun laws really are, but on the other hand this shows politicians a way of eliminating firearm sales as well.

    The politicans really don't care about STI not selling anything to Cali. What the politicans would care about is if it effected their LE weapons as California LE would be complaining up a storm. This is why gun laws don't effect LE as they are made to restrict law abiding citizens only. A disarmed society is an easy society to control when the higher ups are the only ones armed. I have to wonder if the Cali LE will have micro-stamping on their firearms......probably not.

  6. #21
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    Wonder if the police would just purchase "out of state" firearms then, transfer them into their state through FFLs if there are any left, or would there be a "state FFL"to do the transfers?
    A lot of "what ifs".
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    This is exactly what has happened and is on going in MA.
    We citizens, in MA, have very little choice thanks to a combination of the state govt. with it's crap 'consumer protection' laws as applied to firearms _and_ by mfrs. giving up on we buyers.
    In CA for mfrs. to give up on that state Barrett style would mean those citizens in that state are to be left in the lurch with nothing but sticks, stones, and used market guns.
    Why not just move then? If you can't get the politics changed, get out of dodge. Don't ask manufacturers to not take a principled stance...
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    This is exactly what has happened and is on going in MA.
    We citizens, in MA, have very little choice
    While I can sympathize I must ask did you lose the right to vote in MA? Who are you campaigning lobbying for to change the insane laws there? I agree with what STI is doing is a good thing especially because they refuse to sell to LEO. It is also my understanding that they just gave up a major LEO contract with CA to do this. So it is not like they had nothing to lose they did and opted for what is moral. If the citizens are unable to have their guns than neither should LEO. I hope the other major manufactures have the balls to follow suit.

    Quote Originally Posted by SCGuy View Post
    I understand your sentiments, but think all firearms makers taking a principled stand and refusing to sell to CA would certainly lead to the law being reversed.
    I agree whole heartedly. I also think we as consumers need to begin to apply pressure on the gun manufactures as well.
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  9. #24
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    While I can sympathize I must ask did you lose the right to vote in MA?
    I wonder about that sometimes.
    It's difficult for me to understand the same two elitest senators being reelected into office for 4 decades when one appears to favor liquid lunches, can't drive and leaves his female friend waiting at the bottom of the river while the other has spoken against our troops for 4 decades and has met with leaders of an enemy in a foreign nation during a time of war while an official of the U.S.
    And they're both anti 2nd amendment!

    Always been curious about that.
    Last edited by P7fanatic; November 23rd, 2007 at 10:08 AM.
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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Effective immediately, STI International has halted all shipments of firearms to California.
    Net effect: If all arms manufacturers do similarly, then the California gun-grabbers will have won by proxy, achieving in a stroke what they could not have achieved legally.

    I like the gesture. But, a gesture is all it is.
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  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCGuy View Post
    The answer is not to go along w/ the anti's wishes by asking "how high?" when told to "Jump!" by the state legislature. The answer is to beat them at their game, and telling them "You won't let us sell guns to citizens unless we comply with your laundry list of requirements, but you want us to sell to your police forces guns not available to everyday Joes? I don't think so. This is a free country, and we are exercising some of that freedom in this fashion: Take your "list" and stick it where the sun don't shine. Go jump in a lake while you're at it. We will no longer sell any products, from holsters to spare parts to weapons, to any law enforcement agency or officer in your state until such time as you get a clue and honor your citizens' right to self-defense by removing all your illogical restrictions on what your "serfs" may buy."

    If Colt, Armalite, Savage, FN, Ruger, S&W, Glock, Springfield, H&K, etc. all did this, and CA agencies saw their weapons becoming unserviceable while criminals continued to arm up, the legislators would feel heat like they've never dreamed of.
    If these companies, plus a few others, banded together and stopped all sales and shipments to Mexifornia (Citizen and LE sales) I don't think it would really take that long for those elitests to get the idea. Maybe they would realize that even though there were no longer legal arms imports the illegal across border transfer to criminals would not be affected. It's a play that could work.
    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson

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  12. #27
    VIP Member Array swiftyjuan's Avatar
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    Since I live in California, and cannot move for several years, I would prefer that dealers continue to sell to civilians, but no government sales; especially with the big discounts they give law enforcement. Let them buy individually and retail if they need something.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Net effect: If all arms manufacturers do similarly, then the California gun-grabbers will have won by proxy, achieving in a stroke what they could not have achieved legally.

    I like the gesture. But, a gesture is all it is.
    that's exactly what they're trying to accomplish. granted STI doesn't have any civilian guns approved in CA, but if more manufacturers follow suit, then the gun-grabbers have won. instead, the gun shops should stop giving discounts to law enforcement and government. that way, some of the lobbying groups in CA might actually stand up against future legislation like this.

  14. #29
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    I think that they should sell CA to Mexico...they just about own it now.
    If you don't think so check out...you tube...Gumball Immigration!

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  15. #30
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    Well if the citizens of these states are not happy with the laws their chosen elected officials are making, they need to stand up at the polls and do something about it. I don't blame companies for refusing to do business in these states with these ridiculous laws.

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