Saturday Night Specials
Whenever I read an article on gun crime, they never mention the type of gun used in the crime. They usually leave it at 'pistol' or 'military-style assault rifle'.
I know they're probably just trying to avoid lawsuits from specific gun manufacturers, but I was wondering if any LEO or someone who has any experience with gun crimes could spill the beans on what type of weapons criminals typically use.
I was also wondering if any self-respecting gun owner would own something like this for self-defense: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=85454037
The cheap line as a rule since better guns can be sold on the street for more money. They keep what doesn't sell as easy; however, I believe that some of the stolen guns are sold to folks that are looking for a good buy, but aren't a criminal.
There are a lot of people who can't afford a Sig, Glock or Beretta , but they have the same right to legally defend themselves as anyone else.
As for the little raven arms 25 auto, if I had one I would carry it. It's cute.:yup:
Obviously "cute" isn't exactly what makes a good EDC, but it would make a good little BUG if nothing else. Much better than nothing. I know at least two of my friends that carry guns like that. Seems they bought them for the wife but ended up being using them themselves because it's easier to conceal than their full size guns.:rolleyes:
Stay away from Raven Arms unless it's the only gun you can afford. And if you end up having to get one then practice throwing it really hard at the target. At least then you'll have one alternative when it doesn't fire.
I'm sure that many have been used effectively before but I wouldn't bet my life on it.
I'm not attacking anyone's ability to defend themselves, I'm merely questioning the effectiveness of these low-cost weapons.
Originally Posted by kracker
When I first considered obtaining a concealed carry permit, I lurked these forums on the CC Guns page. The most frequently given advice was to 'carry a weapon that will work when you need it' followed by 'something with decent stopping power'. The higher prices were always justified with 'your life is worth more than x (the low price of cheap and supposedly ineffictive weapons).' I'm a poor, independent college student and even I managed to save up to plop down $350 for a S&W J frame.
Has anyone ever used one of these cheap weapons? I have never even seen one, but I assume that they work better for criminals. If you point a gun in my face, I'm gonna do what you say whether it's a nice 1911 or it looks like it came out of a gumball machine.
Are these weapons designed for intimidation, not use? I know if someone tried to defend themselves with one of these, would it go boom in the moment of truth or leave them with a click sound followed by the bang of the perp's weapon?
Cheap guns have killed many people. They often do work and may work most of the time or even all of the time. As far as caliber, even little 22s kill frequently.
Most people that carry for defense feel they need something that will work 100% and quick enough to save there lives. If the attacker dies later from a 22 round but still has time to kill the victim then the gun didn't help the victim.
But as many have said before me. Any gun is better than no gun.
Read somewhere that more people are kiled with .22 in the US than any other round. Interesting to see if that was true or not...
THey are designed for use, the thing is they may go bang 99 times out of 100 in perfect conditions, which is cool for the range, But I sure as heck wouldn't want that one time of *click* and not *bang*if at all possible, therefore people will go with HK's/GLOCK/SIG who have a reputation for going bang reguardless of ammo choice, cleanliness*, or climate, the thing is a BG tends to be not to have financial stablity, which is probally why he needs the gun in the first place so he can rob you and your wife and your kids blind, hopefully not wrose
Originally Posted by credy
*obviously you have to clean your weapon, and should because you paid a ton for it, but higher end carry guns can tend to go longer w/o being cleaned
Yea, I'm interested in the stats too. It's unfortunate the journalists of today speak of empty shells flying from the nonexistant ejection ports of revolvers and 'assault pistols'.
Originally Posted by Fragman
Yea, buying an HK would really cut into a BG crack mony.
i actually do own "one of those guns", a cobra enterprises CA .380. it's a direct descendent of one of the "ring of fire" pocket pistols. first, i must admit, i bought it mostly for sentimental reasons: the very first gun i ever bought and carried was the same type of gun, from a company called davis industries. one thing people should realize, although ROF are very cheap to buy in stores, on the street, especially in an anti-gun city like NYC, a $75 gun can fetch over $200.
i've so far put about 100 rounds through the cobra, with one failure, which i believe to be ammo related. i'm a firm believer in the value of saturday night specials. many ordinary people can't afford to plunk down $500 - 1,000 for a "name brand" gun, and often, when they need a gun, they need it now. is it better to wait a few weeks to buy a kimber, and be vulnerable? or would you like to be able to defend yourself when you need to?
granted, the reliability and quality control of ROF type guns is not gonna be the same as S&W, glock, sig, or other brands. but a cheap gun is better than a brick of 24K gold any day.
You can get a kel-tec in 25, 32, 380 and 9mm all good guns and most can be found for around $200 except for the 9mm, it's a little more. I've have several of them and I've never had a misfire except the 9mm on the first round I ever fired (stove pipe) out of around 3,000 I've got in it now.
As far as Cobra enterprises I've been reading good things about these and charter arms as well.
My point is that I don't think you have to spend a lot (sig, kimber, etc) to get a good gun but it's probably going to be more than $50.
I don't think I would put anything Cobra Enterprises makes in the same category as a Davis type of gun. I had a an older Davis( never carried it, but it was only $35) and my step dad has a newer one. They are better than a sharp stick but are very cheaply made and probably wouldn't last long if fired often( I shot mine maybe twice and my stepdad has about 50rnds through his). The newer Cobra weapons seem to be much better made, maybe a tier or two under a Keltec. I know that there are many out there who struggle just to feed their families and to pay their bills and if the Davis was the only thing I could afford then I would carry one. If I couldn't afford that I would carry a sharp stick. As they say "by any means necessary".
One thing I'll add here - is that if legal guns were banned, there are enough home garage engineers around to be well able to make true "Saturday Night Specials" - the original throw-away!
Any anti who thinks that a ban on all guns will affect crime in the least - is living in a dream Plus of course there are enough black market guns in circulation that even the home garage mechanic would probably not be needed.
I am sure many a cheap pot metal gun has tho been the demise of good folks.