Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue! - Page 3

Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue!

This is a discussion on Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue! within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; At least two cases that I can think of (there may be another - it's dancing around in my memory, just out of reach) - ...

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  1. #31
    Member Array Erich's Avatar
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    At least two cases that I can think of (there may be another - it's dancing around in my memory, just out of reach) - one serious injury and one fatality. 9x19 FMJ and .40 JHP. Both bullets passed completely through thick parts of a human prior to hitting the second human.
    Shot-placement is king. Adequate penetration is queen. Everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins.


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Proves once again you have to be aware of your target, what's in between, and what's behind...
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  3. #33
    Member Array Erich's Avatar
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    Yep.
    Shot-placement is king. Adequate penetration is queen. Everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins.

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    You know!!! I read stuff like this hopping to get a unbiased/ Expert opinion then immediately see that is not the case; nor did it actually come from somebody who sees the whole picture.
    I do carry a G23 chambered in .40. Not because I think its "Better" then a 9mm, but because when I compete in IDPA I find My scores are higher with a .40 and I actually shoot better. I Love 9mm's and feel they are very effective when put in the right hands. And if you weight effectivness by Hight body counts in short amounts of time, Cho showed us that a 9mm works very well, I know the laws of physics however I just do.


    As for me, I'll take a slow-moving .45 to a gun fight any day. I absolutely despise a 9mm for defensive situations (yes, they will eventually kill but often not quickly enough to prevent the BG from doing you in first)and a .380 as well. These are probably the two calibers I see most often on the autopsy table.

    One if you feel most comfortable carring a .45 go right ahead. Its a great cartridge. Saying you despise 9mm because of (yes, they will eventually kill but often not quickly enough to prevent the BG from doing you in first)you are living in a fantasy world and don't understand that its not the gun its the operator behind it who determines whether or not the gun is effective. Equipment helps but its a small % of the equation Actually I understand what is the best caliber and that understanding has led me to there is NO best caliber. Stating your a coroner/expert on ballistics is about as assinign (probably not spelled right) as saying your Doctor because you watch ER/Bones.

    as well as a suicide to the head with a .44 Mag that didn't penetrate the skull on the other side.
    We had the same thing happen at our range with a Smith 629 similiar consequences as in what was stated. All the more reason shot placement is key.

    The .357 is gloriously effective. Interesting a 9mm is almost the same caliber when converted to inches. If you get a +p+ bullet your getting up near velocity. He takes one extreme on the 9mm but the other on a .357 which is almost identicle in diameter.

    The .357 is a wonderfully effective round for self-defense from what I've seen, but it's rare that we get them in anymore.
    IF I'm reading between the lines this "Coroner" has the gun, shell casings and everything sitting on the table next to the body. I find it very hard to believe that this man can determine between a .38 and a .357 since they are exactly the same unless you have the gun sitting next to him. I seriously think most shootings that hes making comparisents between 9mm, .380, .38. 357 he doesn't have the gun, making it hard to make intelligent Comparisents between calibers.

    That said, the 125-grain .357 is marvelously effective.

    Umm so whats the overwhelming physical difference that makes a 9mm so inadequate over the .357 when you compare a 124 grain 9mm(.356) +p+ moving at about 500 FPS and a 125 grain .357 Moving at 550-600?

    OO crap what if hes shooting RANGER 125 GRAIN 9mm +P+ AWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!

    The standing joke in the morgue is to guess the caliber by looking at the x-rays. If multiple rounds show up on the x-rays more often than not it's a 9mm or .380 (or .32 or .25 or some mouse gun caliber). If only one round shows up, it could be an inordinately good hit with a .380 or 9mm, but more likely it's a .40 or .45.

    So is the other joke that if there are no bodies in the morgue the chances are the guy was shot at with a gun he couldn't handle ( something with a larger recoil signature than others), therefore missed his target completely?

    As for the .357 being a well-documented man-stopper, I'm guessing that you guys are right in assuming that it's mainly a function of velocity, but if someone wants to disagree I'll have no issue with it because it's a caliber we almost NEVER see anymore. When I was a cop in Atlanta it was the caliber of choice for law enforcement. Unfortunately, I only rarely got to see autopsies back then so I can't speak from vast experience. With the increasing use of semi-autos, the prevalence of revolver rounds such as the .38 and .357 has dropped dramatically, and although we still see the .38 with some frequency, we almost never get to see the .357 at autopsy

    How due to you tell the difference? I know plenty of people who still carry .357 Magnums and .357 shorts (aka .38's) Unless you have the gun on the table sitting next to you all the time every time how do you make a logically comparisent.

    The author is well spoken on the subject and knows the lingo; however, its still biased and lacks good support for his argument. Using your credentials as a coroner to have someone believe an illogical argument makes me thinking your not telling the truth about your credentials in the first place, or you have watched alot of CSI ( if you are actually a Coroner/ Former Cop good for you) However, If small calibers are so in affective I'm going to reference the shooting at VA-TECH.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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  5. #35
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    I'm guessing the writer is just what he says he is and the info is accurate. I think his info doesn't match what you believe,so you knock him.Your argument about v tech is lame.That was like shooting fish in a barrel.I carried a .357 back when I was a LEO , but fortunately never had to use it.That being said, I had the utmost confidence that it was a capable weapon depending on ammo choice.I also liked the .45 acp as a duty weapon. I have always felt the 9mm was fairly lame compared to some other choices and his info seems to back that up.Chuck.

  6. #36
    Member Array homepcmd's Avatar
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    I read it in the past and decided it's "right" from his POV.

    But he nevered considered other factors... like during his time many THUGS did not practice enough and had cheap easy-to-carry firearms but did not know how to maintain them. Plus to them any ammo was good ammo and had no clue of FMJ, SWC, JHP, or anything else.

    A similar argument was those who tend to repeat buy Hondas LOVE them and care for them better and more than those who buy Chevy. They ALWAYS change oil, do tuneups, clean and polish... etc.

    So whoch car seems like it's "better" after two years?

    Show me somebody who owns a $2000 .45 ACP 1911 and I will show you somebody who's way more serious about his/her firearm vs a gang banger.

    It may be accurate... and true... and even precise... but it lacks relevence to the real world we confront today.
    “We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm” - George Orwell

  7. #37
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    It may be accurate... and true... and even precise... but it lacks relevence to the real world we confront today.
    How do you figure that? He is using real world experience.

    I'd be willing to be that if you had to shoot someone, that person will fit the "skank" profile.

    You probably arent going to have to shoot someone that has your skill level, pays attention to their firearms, has the educational level or beleif system that you do or even takes the time to practice shooting with the same ammo that he carrys in the gun.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  8. #38
    VIP Member Array frankmako's Avatar
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    looks like the 380 pocket gun goes to the sale and i keep the 40 cal glock. now what do i do with the model 60.
    An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

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  9. #39
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Crankshop1000,
    you bash Rob because he questions this guy and you say you believe it is because he contradicts what Rob believes. You are quick to support him and state that basically what he is saying is what you believe. Are you really looking at this with a critical eye here? You can't throw out the Va Tech shootings just because they "were like shooting fish in a barrel". That situation is as real world as you are going to get. .22 long rifles don't gain hundreds of foot pounds of energy when fired on college campuses. What you have is people killed at gun fight range, with a cartridge this guy dismisses.

    I found the writing less than credible for a couple of reasons. I have a couple of questions but the author isn't here to answer them. Maybe some of you all can.
    1) If he is telling us about what he has seen in autopsies, why does he mention seeing someone hit with several well placed 9mm rounds and survivng? If they survived, why were they autopsied?

    2) If he is a logical person, and the .357 magnum 125JHP is such a fantastic stopper, and as he says it is due to it's velocity, why does he then go on to advocate heavy slow moving bullets? Round "A" is phenominal because it is fast and light and that is why I like ( and so should you) slow and heavy!

    Does that sound logical?
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