Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue!

Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue!

This is a discussion on Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue! within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This is ballistics with a twist as seen thru the eyes of a coroner! Like to know your thoughts about this article! Here's the site ...

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Thread: Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue!

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Sneaky's Avatar
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    Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue!

    This is ballistics with a twist as seen thru the eyes of a coroner!
    Like to know your thoughts about this article! Here's the site


    Time to make the coffee!

  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
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    Interesting read! I'm glad I have a 12 gauge, .40 & .45!
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  3. #3
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    The guy likes the .45, that's all I need to know!
    Last edited by Thumper; December 25th, 2007 at 11:22 PM.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  5. #4
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    Geez I read for about 30 minutes and wasn't near done. Great artiicle. I feel good with my 40, but need to get some Gold Dots.

  6. #5
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    This article affirms my decision to buy my .45 SA XD for home defense and self defense; however, I also have a shotgun on standby as well. Massad Ayoob recommends the .45 as well.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    IIRC this was proven total bull . If the guy had any experience in a morgue at all it was as an assistant not a DR. Also he debunks himself in the first little bit with the statement " see an average of 8.2 autopsies per day/365 days per year," . Come on guys do the math That statement alone does not hold up for any jurisdiction .
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  8. #7
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    Redneck Repairs has a point

    This particular piece has been bouncing around on gun chat boards for several years. I first read it a couple of years ago on another website.

    Like Redneck Repairs, I am a little doubtful about taking anonymous postings as gospel. I would rather read an article like this in some forensics or medical journal where the author identifies himself and the article has been reviewed by his peers before it is published. He could be making good points or questionable points - there is just no way to tell for sure.
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  9. #8
    VIP Member Array OPFOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubs View Post
    Massad Ayoob recommends the .45 as well.
    Indeed? That's interesting, because I've never been able to find any instance where Mr. Ayoob actually recomends any particular caliber. In my experience, he tells folks what most of us tell folks - carry the caliber that you shoot the best, assuming some baseline of performance. Here's a quote (a bit dated, admitedly) from Mssr. Ayoob, which doesn't seem to support your assertion: (from http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/ayoob54.html)

    I “do firearms” for a living, and the gun I prefer to have at the bedside is a customized Beretta 92 (in 9mm)...
    And, not to continue beating the deadest horse in the firearms world, but what does this article tell us? That BGs prefer smaller, generally less expensive pistols? Is this news to anyone?

    I would hate to think that anyone uses this article as "proof positive" that one caliber is massively better than another... This is anecdotal evidence (and hardly that, since there is no way to know the circumstances of the shootings, what the victims did - if anything - after being shot, or anything else.)

    The author's primary point seems to be that bodies with 9mm holes in them tend to have more holes in them than those with .45 holes. If this is so, how about a number? "Victims shot with 9mm had an average of 2.34 wound channels, while victims shot with .45s had an average of 1.67 wound channels" - or whatever the actual numbers are - might be a place to start. Then we wound need the details of the shootings: ”victim X was shot once with a .45 – he then proceeded to murder the entire family of the shooter, make a ham sandwich, and drive himself to the hospital, where he later died” vs. “victim Y was shot twice with a 9mm and died instantly.” OK, Y got shot twice and X only once – which was the better outcome?

    And then we have the fact that only fatalities are counted. What if there are hundreds and hundreds of cases where the victim survived being shot by the .45? Then the author would never see them! In this case, wouldn't that be an argument AGAINST the .45? The author himself says that the majority of victims he sees have been shot (and KILLED) by 9mms - what we don't know is how many folks take the hit and keep going.

    In short – don’t believe the hype. This article is opinion, pure and simple. It doesn’t prove anything, and should not be taken as any sort of gospel. Don’t let this alone influence your caliber decision. Weigh all the factors that go into ammo selection, and then choose. And then, PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!

    ETA: RR and Pogo beat me to the punch, and much more succinctly, I might add!
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  10. #9
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Oh well yea... he spends most of his time trying to justify the conclusion that defies his own provided facts. That most of the calibers he sees in the MORGUE are .380 and 9mm... Now... given that them being in the Morgue, they must be fatalities. Then he provides just pure unsubstantiated conclusions that it took more bullets. When everyone knows that one shot from a .22 has killed many a person when well placed. And several shots from a 45 haver resulted in survivals. So... we can assume its about as unscientific of a rambling as can be put together.

    However, given that, I would prefer to be handling a .40 or a .45... but... given the option of not being able to have one of those... I will take a 9mm or .380 or even a .32 over a sharp stick or a rock... and work within their limitations.

  11. #10
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    Interesting and very loooooooooong article...had two cups of coffee before I finished reading. So many variables to make 'prime' conclusions...I am glad that my two EDC's are both .45's!

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  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    IIRC this was proven total bull . If the guy had any experience in a morgue at all it was as an assistant not a DR. Also he debunks himself in the first little bit with the statement " see an average of 8.2 autopsies per day/365 days per year," . Come on guys do the math That statement alone does not hold up for any jurisdiction .
    After your reviews I didn't even bother to read it.
    Redneck- great point. That comes out to 2993 autopsies a year. All of Kalifornia falls a litlle short of that. The guy sounds full of it.

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  13. #12
    Senior Member Array MilitaryPower's Avatar
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    Good read, but even though I have a .40, I won't feel undergunned when I get a Walther PPS in 9mm. Shot placement first and ammo type next.
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  14. #13
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    I remember when the original series started. I believe he said he was a forensic pathologist if I remember correctly. That meant he reviewed autopsies, not performed them. Also stated he had done a lot of mass casualty work in Bosnia and the like. There were other people who backed up his credentials at the time. For various reasons he chose to remain anonymous. Could be true, who knows....
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  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Yes. That is correct. He is a forensic pathologist working in Atlanta. I know a few other guys from other forums that shoot IDPA with him. He is who he says he is.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array artz's Avatar
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    very interesting article...
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