Machine gun

This is a discussion on Machine gun within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This is in response to the silencer post. Theoretically speaking I could get any class 3 weapon/item given I fill out the paper work, and ...

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Thread: Machine gun

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Machine gun

    This is in response to the silencer post. Theoretically speaking I could get any class 3 weapon/item given I fill out the paper work, and pay the $200? I saw the M4A1 in a catalog. It has a semi-auto/3 shot burst option. The guy at the gun store said it's a class 3 item. If I really wanted to get it could I? I'm not to familiar with class 3 items, or what is 100% prohibited. Maybe someone can clear it up better. If I can legally get a M4A1, you better believe I'll be saving up for that instead of the AR-15

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    I believe yes, it is possible to own them. You have to send the "tax money" to the ATF, fill out some paperwork, and get an approval signature from your local sheriff.

    You will need a completed and signed “Form 4” (5320.4), a “922 Compliance” form ( F 5330.20), 2 sets of fingerprints, 2 passport photos and payment of the appropriate “Transfer Fee” $200.

    ask your class 3 dealer if there is anything specific to know in your area...
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  4. #3
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    I am not familiar with the rules, but are you not then a slave to a lot of special ATF rules? Someone here with a Class 3 will know......

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    I believe there is only certain weapons you can own. Most seem to be per 70's manufacture. I am almost positive you cannot own a M4. same with modern guns like HK MP5's , ect.
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    Where's our member Class3NH when we need him?

    I am trying to remember the year date - 1986 was it - NFA?? Only FA guns to be legally aquired (with all the ATF and tax stamp hassle) have to be older than that date. Nothing in current manufacture is available other than to LE etc.

    Prices are astronomic - even a Mac 10 can make $5k I believe.
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  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    found a FAQ that looks informative:

    National Firearms Act of 1934 NFA FAQ
    New production of full-auto weapons have been prohibited for civilians manufacture and/or sale since 1986 when it was signed into law by then President Ronald Reagan.

    Can you sell a machine gun or full-auto rifle or pistol to me as a civilian? Yes, however machineguns and full auto weapons have been banned from civilian production since 1986. The only machineguns and full-auto weapons that may be purchase by civilians were those made and entered into the NFA registry 1986 and prior. As a result of high demand and low supply prices range from $3400.00 to $20,000.00 and up. I suggest pulling the trigger faster instead, it's a lot cheaper.

    Can a civilian buy a suppressor or short barrel rifle? Unless prohibited by your local city or state law, a civilian through proper paperwork, fee's and taxes can legally own a suppressor or short barrel rifle.
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    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    You can make something that is identical to an M4, but it wouldnt say M4 on the frame.

    The last of the civilain owned machine guns were made in 1986. You, as an individual, can own any MG from 1986 or before. So you could have an M16 with a 14" barrel with the later contour, A2 upper, etc. Only the frame is really regulated with the MG status.

    Oh, if you DO get a machine gun version of a rifle, you can put a short barrel on it, no extra paperwork or cost. Since it is a machine gun, not a rifle, it isn't subject to the 'short barrel rifle' conditions.

    There are some drawbacks, like paperwork everytime you TRANSPORT the rifle. One fellow at ATF said every trip requires a transport permit approved, another ATF said only when transported out of state. Not sure what the official rule is.

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    You only need a transport permit when going out of state. If you stay in the stae that it is registered in, you dont need one when transporting.

    Same way with a suppressor. It is done to insure that you dont illegally or inadvertantly move a restricted item though a state that dosent allow it.
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  10. #9
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    Can a civilian buy a suppressor or short barrel rifle? Unless prohibited by your local city or state law, a civilian through proper paperwork, fee's and taxes can legally own a suppressor or short barrel rifle.
    Its a lot cheaper to build one if you have the means. You can do that with a Form 1.
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  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Machine guns.....

    Its simple supply and demand. In 1986 an act was passed which made regualar civilians to by any newly manufactured Machine guns. Therefore you can own an UZI made December 31, 1985 but you can't own an UZI manufactured on January 1, 1986. Maybe I don't have the exact dates but thats basically it. The point is any new Machine gun design that come out you will NEVER be able to own.

    However, if the gun was manufactured before 1986 AND was registered. You may purchase it. Of course 1986 was over 20 years ago therefore people buying machine guns buy them for differn't reasons, including as a form of investments. Look at it this way a Vector UZI which cost about $400 dollars in 1985 now cost over $6500 and the prices only go up from there. MP5's now $17,500. This is effect is a simple supply and demand curve. The government chopped the supply completly driving the prices up.

    Now you can own parts of a machine gun like the sears etc...of a M16/4 but I wouldn't own a AR 15......
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  12. #11
    Member Array dogrunner's Avatar
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    Hotguns: You do NOT need to fill out a 5320.20 request to transport for a supressor. SMGs, MGs, SBRs tho do require an interstate approval on that form.

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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro2A View Post
    This is in response to the silencer post. Theoretically speaking I could get any class 3 weapon/item given I fill out the paper work, and pay the $200? I saw the M4A1 in a catalog. It has a semi-auto/3 shot burst option. The guy at the gun store said it's a class 3 item. If I really wanted to get it could I? I'm not to familiar with class 3 items, or what is 100% prohibited. Maybe someone can clear it up better. If I can legally get a M4A1, you better believe I'll be saving up for that instead of the AR-15
    If you're looking at AR/M16 styles, get the Drop-In Autosear (DIAS.) The DIAS is "the machine gun," and may be legally used in any AR variant you may have. If you buy a FA receiver, that's what you're stuck with, in the event of structural failure.

    The DIAS will not allow you to use less than a 16" barrel, however, as that is an SBR (Short Barreled Rifle) and would require seperate licensing.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array Shizzlemah's Avatar
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    Beware the DIAS. It can be a very quick one way ticket to club fed.

    Do N-O-T buy one of the mailorder DIAS jobbies. If you cannot PROVE it was made pre-86, you are in a world of trouble.


    A DIAS that is taxed and registered is another beast, just do not order one that claims to be pre-86.

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    Member Array Greg in VA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogrunner View Post
    Hotguns: You do NOT need to fill out a 5320.20 request to transport for a supressor. SMGs, MGs, SBRs tho do require an interstate approval on that form.
    The only exception to that is on SMG's or MG's that are classified as C&R (curio and relic) providing the owner posesses a current C&R license. Then no form (5320.20) is needed to transport said firearm out of state, providing of course the state you are taking it into allows class III.

    As to having ATF in your back pocket, that is false. ATF has the right to "inspect" your class III firearms, however they cannot show up out of the blue to do it. They must schedule a time to come, and you have the option to bring said firearms to their field office. I have known several people in the last 20 years who have owned class III, and I have yet to hear of one instance where ATF has "inspected" their firearms. I have owned class III for over eight years, and I have heard nothing from them.
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  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shizzlemah View Post
    A DIAS that is taxed and registered is another beast, just do not order one that claims to be pre-86.
    Yes, that would be the creature I am referring to.

    I've always wondered if it was the ATF that has the running ad for mail-order DIASs in SGN....

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