Hamilton County Ohio DA says OK to shoot fleeing felons

Hamilton County Ohio DA says OK to shoot fleeing felons

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Thread: Hamilton County Ohio DA says OK to shoot fleeing felons

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Hamilton County Ohio DA says OK to shoot fleeing felons

    Use Of Deadly Force: Store Owners Fighting Back - Cincinnati breaking news, weather radar, traffic from 9News | Channel 9 WCPO.com

    Hit the link and watch the video, it's better than reading the transcript!

    Reported by: Brendan Keefe
    Photographed by: Sean Dunster
    Web produced by: Laura Hornsby

    Armed robbers now face a potential penalty worse than prison time: death. But should store owners use their guns to act as judge, jury and executioner?

    Shots ring out on a downtown street. Police show up and take the shooter's gun away, but they don't arrest him. Why? Because the gunman was a store owner chasing a fleeing armed robber.

    The law on this is fuzzy, but Hamilton County's prosecutor is crystal clear: victims will not be charged for fighting back.

    Store owners and clerks have made easy targets for years. But now, an armed robber may end up staring down the barrel of a gun himself, especially in Hamilton County, where the victims are fighting back.

    Wade Nassar's downtown convenience store was held up last November. He not only gave the gunman the cash, but also gave him a run for his money. "I want to kill him so bad," said Nassar. "I grab my gun, size 22, small bullet, the smallest gun, [and] 'bam! bam! bam!' I miss him."

    The bullets hit trees and whizzed by a neighboring school. No one was hit, but the 61-year-old store owner faced the very real possibility of criminal charges himself for chasing the gunman out of the store after the danger had passed.

    Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters decided not to charge Nassar, or Rufino Delangel, another store owner who opened fire on so-called "fleeing felons" that same month.

    "They [shot at] me three times," said Delangel, "Then I [fired] back."

    "I cannot fault someone who wants to defend themselves," Deters said. "I will not charge them in the defense of their business or their family or themselves."

    Ohio law allows civilians to use deadly force only if they have a reasonable fear of imminent seriously bodily injury or death.

    Retired Cincinnati police officer Tom Wood teaches his concealed carry students the law: you can not chase your attackers down the street.

    "If your life is threatened, that's the only time you're allowed to shoot, if you're in mortal fear of losing your life - pull the trigger," said Wood. "That's what I would suggest. Don't go hunting."

    But Joe Deters is the law in Hamilton County, and charging a store owner is a losing case. How does a prosecutor get 12 jurors to identify with the armed robber and not the hard-working robbery victim?

    "If I don't believe we can win at trial, we can't charge people, and I won't charge people," said Deters.

    Bob Mlinar didn't have a gun the night in July 2006 when he was shot by robbers at his Hamilton Avenue drive-thru. "His accomplice was standing over me, pointing the gun at me," explained Mlinar. They came back with their guns six months later. "I believe the one that shot me this time was the same one who shot me in July."

    It happens fast: from customer to attacker in a split-second.

    Sometimes the gunmen shoot first and ask questions later.

    "If someone is using deadly force against you, you can use it back," Deters said. And that's what many store owners are doing- using hammers, baseball bats, and even axes.

    And in a robbery of a Columbus motel, the desk clerk had a gun. He fires three times, hitting the armed robber with each shot. In that instance, a mother pulls her toddler out of the line of fire just in time.

    "If you walk into a store with a gun in order to rob it, I believe you've forfeited your right not to be shot," Deters said.

    So far, there has not been a local case of an innocent bystander shot by a pistol-packing store owner. Deters says he will deal with each case on an individual basis. But if this is a war, store owners are on the front lines. Many of them have taken up arms and have little reason to fear prosecution for pulling the trigger.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!


  2. #2
    Member Array abuttermilk's Avatar
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    This sounds great!! Now everybody needs to bring this to the attention of their local politicos and get a state law passed that protects the victims and not the criminals!
    Good Job Mr. Joe Deters!!
    "It does not take a majority to prevail,,,,,,but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    The law on this is fuzzy, but Hamilton County's prosecutor is crystal clear: victims will not be charged for fighting back.
    Excellent step in the right direction, but the law needs to be fixed if it truly is fuzzy. It should not be fuzzy. Fuzzy equates to hesitation on the part of citizens, and hesitation can mean death.

    The point is simple: criminals are; citizens aren't; and defense against criminals is an honorable act. Victims should not be charged as criminals, for fighting back. That's exactly as it should be ... everywhere.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  4. #4
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    I you read what the prosecutor says "he will not prosecute a case he cannot win". Not , go chase BG's down and shoot them. The media did their usual spin and didn't report accurately (as usual).
    I bet the first person who actually chases down and shoots a fleeing BG will have a court date .
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  5. #5
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    Deters did goooooood...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky View Post
    "he will not prosecute a case he cannot easily win".
    Working with Deters daily, I added one word to what he really should have said.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  7. #7
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    I am actually kind of worried about this article. There is a definite spin, but it's almost too right for my taste. This article almost makes it seem like the DA condones
    The bullets hit trees and whizzed by a neighboring school.
    I'm all for protecting property, I'm all for protecting myself and my family, but you have to know where your shots are going.

    Personally, I think if Nassar had hit what he was aiming at, then he shouldn't be charged, but because he came nowhere close, I tend to think he should have been charged with reckless discharge of a firearm.

    I love the slant the DA took on it, that he won't prosecute victims fighting back. I'm all for that.

    But the first time one of the randomly fired shots at escaping BG's hit's a child instead of just "whizzing by a neighboring school", all hades is going to break loose.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  8. #8
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    Those were the reporters words (bullets going by schools) not Deters. FWIW, the bullets would have to be JFK "magic" bullets to go anywhere near a school in that area and the direction the shots were fired.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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