School Shootings-Government responds?

School Shootings-Government responds?

This is a discussion on School Shootings-Government responds? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; First off all,please delete this post if its seen as inappropriate. And am sorry for anyones loss to those who knew anyone in any of ...

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Thread: School Shootings-Government responds?

  1. #1
    AH [OP]
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    School Shootings-Government responds?

    First off all,please delete this post if its seen as inappropriate.
    And am sorry for anyones loss to those who knew anyone in any of the shootings.

    But I came across this list of school shootings;
    List of school-related attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    8 College shootings in 2007 and two already in 2008.
    On top of the many other related episodes.

    That is a lot of school shootings.Is there in any of the late cases,made any effort in preventing any more shootings?

    Is there any schools or colleges that uses metal dectectors to prevent illegal firearm on school property? For those with permits;
    how would it be possible to prevent this kind of shootings in the future?Would it be possible to make a system to confiscate any illegal weapons?
    If so,what kinds of system?

    Is it a question of money or simply what is practical and possible to executable in everyday basis and what is seen as hurdle to the students?


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    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    October 1, 1997 Pearl, Mississippi,

    United States
    Luke Woodham, 16 3 dead,

    7 injured
    Student 16-year-old Luke Woodham stabbed and beat his mother to death, then took a .30-30 lever-action deer hunting rifle to Pearl High School where he shot into a crowd of students, killing his ex-girlfriend Christina Menefee and her friend Lydia Kay Dew and wounded seven other students. The incident was ended when Vice Principal Joel Myrick took his personal .45 Colt handgun out of his vehicle and brandished it at Luke Woodham. Woodham later claimed that he did not remember killing his mother.

    This one was about 10 miles from my house. How many more would have died if the VP Didn't go to his car? How many would he have saved if he didn't have to go all the way to the car?
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AH View Post
    Is there in any of the late cases,made any effort in preventing any more shootings?

    Is there any schools or colleges that uses metal dectectors to prevent illegal firearm on school property? For those with permits;
    how would it be possible to prevent this kind of shootings in the future?Would it be possible to make a system to confiscate any illegal weapons?
    If so,what kinds of system?

    Is it a question of money or simply what is practical and possible to executable in everyday basis and what is seen as hurdle to the students?
    AH, I was a little unclear as to whether the questions above were yours, or ones you relayed for discussion...? In any event, to answer:

    Probably the clearest "effect of timely intervention" was the VT incident. Armed officers responded within 3 minutes. Many moderately trained divers can hold their breath that long. The point is, even with armed response essentially on-scene at the moment of the shooting, the only persons who were able to have real effect were those within sight of the shooter.

    I can tell you, from professional experience, several people can be killed by an angry man with a steak knife, if the knife-weilder blocks the only exit from a room. Belief that prevention, screening, confiscation, etc., can stop violent assault is masturbatory fantasy at its worst.

    This mindset is re-infesting LE as well- the new COP in Houston, TX is reportedly going to mandate that his officers fire two shots, then stop to assess when responding to lethal force. The new (current Lt. Governor) of New York state was co-sponsor of a bill that would have disallowed the use of lethal force by police when responding to lethal force, without specific, called for permission(ala GB, I believe).

    "The System" already has the authority to confiscate, and prosecute for, illegally possessed weapons currently. The System is not safety, but a poor panacea for personal responsibility. I'm an ex-EMT/Corrections officer, and from picking up the pieces of many,many bad "inter-personal interfaces", I can say that violence can only be stopped with immediate, overwhelming violence.

    Many people get into the debate of "morality" and strict legality regarding the application of violence. Beyond very basic standards, if this is a serious debate for one, one should not be armed or given credence in discussion of violent behavior.
    For those with permits;
    how would it be possible to prevent this kind of shootings in the future?
    Be prepared to kill a human being.

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    VIP Member Array cdwolf's Avatar
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    Very well "said" Rob.
    GUN CONTROL= I WANT TO BE THE ONE IN CONTROL OF THE GUN

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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    The public high schools here in New Orleans have metal detectors, security guards, 8-foot chain link fences all around, etc. and they still can not keep firearms out. All this for a facility that covers only one square block and has only one building.

    Consider the average college or university campus that covers acres or hundreds of acres of ground and is made up of dozens of buildings, with a hundred or so streets for ingress/egress and no fences anywhere. How are you going to interdict weapons coming in? Visit a campus near you and try to come up with a way on the spot. The answer is you can't.

    So far, the powers that be have just put up "No, No, That's Not Nice" signs and crossed their fingers, hoping nothing will happen on their watch until they can retire. We all know how well that is working.

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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Another example of what can happen in three minutes:

    Red Lake Massacre Took 3 Minutes, Feds Say Teen Shooter Fired 45 Times, Killing 7 People - CBS News

    (AP) Student gunman Jeff Weise fired 45 times during his rampage through the halls of Red Lake High School last month, killing all seven of his victims in three short minutes, investigators said Monday in providing new details about the worst school shooting since Columbine. (sic)
    Somehow... the metal detector did nothing, and the unarmed guard of course, being unarmed, bravely confronted the boy and was killed for his effort.

    I like to share this incident with folks I meet that believe a few unarmed guards and metal detectors will fix the problem. I know I'm preaching to the choir here.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Possible fixes to 'Gun Free Zones', or as I like to call them, 'Criminal Empowerment Zones', and why they won't work...

    Solution 1: Provide adequate security checkpoints to ensure people cannot come onto the property armed.
    Problem: A campus or mall is too large of an area with too many entrance points. Even with high security fences, unless somebody was stationed every 50 feet, people could still smuggle guns or people across and retrieve the gun after going through the checkpoint.

    Solution 2: Force people to go through a single checkpoint with metal detectors at the entrance.
    Problem: A metal detector with the sensitivity set low enough to detect a gun would also be sensitive enough to go off on keys, change, belt buckles, watches, etc. The time to pass several thousand people through a somewhat adequate security checkpoint can be easily seen at your local airport. You also run into the same problem as solution #1. Checkpoints can be bypassed.

    Solution 3: Prevent a person who intends to commit a crime from coming on the property.
    Problem: You don't know who is the threat until they have already started because the bad guys look just like the good guys.

    Solution 4: Prosecute people who commit gun related offenses in Gun Free Zones to the fullest extent of the law.
    Problem: Our legal system and even our Police Department is a reactionary system, not a prevention system. If you do this, we will do this. For any illegal action, there will be certain consequences. This is done in the hopes that the threat of a consequence will be a deterrent to crime. The trouble with that is; if you have somebody that is prepared to die, and intends to die, to carry out whatever plans he has, he is impossible to stop because of the very nature of our legal system. We could only punish him afterwards, and if he kills himself, we are kind of left holding the bag. A punishment based system, just doesn't work if they guy is willing to die. It's even less effective if he wants to die.

    As has been proven many times before, the only way to prevent a crime from occuring or from escalating are for there to be good citizens at the crime's location, who are legally armed and willing to stop that crime. So, it appears to me, the only way to 'fix' gun free zones is to abolish them.
    Last edited by Kerbouchard; March 14th, 2008 at 02:38 PM. Reason: add info
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    Probably the clearest "effect of timely intervention" was the VT incident. Armed officers responded within 3 minutes.
    Just one point here. The key word is RESPONDED, but before you can respond you have to be notified!

    So in reality what is the actual time from the first shot till an armed response to the shooting site? If it was just 3 minutes from the first shot my hat is off to those folks.......
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    Beyond very basic standards, if this is a serious debate for one, one should not be armed or given credence in discussion of violent behavior.

    Be prepared to kill a human being.
    I heard a good quote on this as well.

    If you want to survive a violent encounter you must be willing to die yourself!
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle View Post
    Just one point here. The key word is RESPONDED, but before you can respond you have to be notified!

    So in reality what is the actual time from the first shot till an armed response to the shooting site? If it was just 3 minutes from the first shot my hat is off to those folks.......
    I don't think anyone was criticizing the police, and I apologize if that's not what you were responding to (a belief that we were).

    The point is that while 3 minutes is a fantastic response time, it is just that, a response. We're trying to discuss prevention and/or proactive measures, and why they will or will not work.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    the new COP in Houston, TX is reportedly going to mandate that his officers fire two shots, then stop to assess when responding to lethal force.
    I wish him lots of luck with that.

    I could probably promise that I wouldn't fire more than two rounds AFTER the threat ceased, though....

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