Rule #2 is the biggest safety net - IMO

Rule #2 is the biggest safety net - IMO

This is a discussion on Rule #2 is the biggest safety net - IMO within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I almost regularly get into discussions over safety with guns - it is after all a major deal - or should be. NRA safety rules ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24

Thread: Rule #2 is the biggest safety net - IMO

  1. #1
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South West PA
    Posts
    25,484

    Rule #2 is the biggest safety net - IMO

    I almost regularly get into discussions over safety with guns - it is after all a major deal - or should be. NRA safety rules are just fine - I teach em - but Jeff's rules for me cover just that bit more.

    First off for me rule #1 is ''a gun is ALWAYS loaded - no half measure. Finger off trigger until ready, rule #3 - good - very important. Rule #4 too is vital - to know target and what is beyond.

    But still - dogmatic ol' me - I will persist and insist that rule #2 is paramount - ''Do NOT point a gun at something - you are not willing to destroy''. It surely has to be the ultimate ''catch all''?

    It is IMO the biggest safeguard of all - screw up on the others and still no one gets hurt - worst may be embarrassment due to a new hole where there wasn't one before

    Agree? if not - which rule matters most to you.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.


  2. #2
    VIP Member
    Array Miggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Miami-Dade, FL
    Posts
    6,258
    Sorry Chris. I want ALL respected and followed. I know it is not your intention, but your post suggests that we can get away by breaking or not caring about the rules and, IMHO that is dangerous as hell.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  3. #3
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,873

    Question Confused

    Why does one rule need to be more important than any of the others?
    The rules be the rules.
    Like if you were going to send the space shuttle up.
    Would it be more important to check the O-Ring seals than the condition of the ceramic tiles...or the Oxygen level?
    Which one would be more important?

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Away - Health Problems
    Posts
    17,352
    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter
    Why does one rule need to be more important than any of the others?
    The rules be the rules.
    Like if you were going to send the space shuttle up.
    Would it be more important to check the O-Ring seals than the condition of the ceramic tiles...or the Oxygen level?
    Which one would be more important?

    Bad Example QK Nasa does not have the best track record lately

  5. #5
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,852
    Chris wasn't saying all the rules aren't important or that any can be ignored. He's just saying that if the gun is always pointed in a safe direction, if something happens the gun will discharge in a safe direction and essentially do no harm.

    I agree with what he's saying. Think about all the UDs (unintentional discharges) you have heard about. The only ones that were tragic was when the gun was pointed in an unsafe direction. If the gun is pointed in a safe direction, a UD is still undesireable, but it's not a tragedy.

  6. #6
    Administrator
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Off Of The X
    Posts
    35,873

    Talking Ok Ok

    I'll go stand in the corner with a piece of chewing gum stuck to my nose as punishment on this one.
    I see your point.

  7. #7
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South West PA
    Posts
    25,484
    Thx Ron - indeed that was the point I tried to make, tho I also am with Miggy in that ''ideally'' of course - all four - ALL the time. That is my way and I am sure same for all here.

    Only reason for bringing it up is to highlight what I felt was the ''most powerful'' if you will - meaning if someone is careless then should they at least have rule #2 etched into their thinking - that one alone would still prevent tragedy.

    So - no way do I suggest anyone follows only rule #2 to exclusion of the rest - no - just that if I try to place peak importance on any one then that is it! Screw up on the others and #2 still leaves everyone alive and well

    Muzzle sweep in guns stores blatently flaunts that rule - and scares the crap outa me.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  8. #8
    VIP Member
    Array Team American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    3,826
    Chris, I will chip in and agree with you on rule #2...

    The only ND I have ever been responsible for occured while hunting elk with my father 3 years ago. I hunt with a Browning BLR lever action rifle (.308...sweet shooter )....it has a nice, fat hammer and the safe way to carry it while loaded is to chamber a round and then place your thumb on the hammer, pull the trigger, and then lower the hammer to a "half cock" position...when needed, you only have to cock the hammer and it's ready to go.

    We rode a 4-wheeler to the place we wanted to hunt from. We dismounted, and I placed a full magazine into the rifle, levered a round into the chamber, and started to place the hammer into the half-cock position....unfortunately, my finger found the trigger before my thumb could control the hammer....result: BLAM!

    Fortunately, Rule #2 was being observed and the rifle was pointed straight up into the air...we looked at each other, and I felt about 1 inch tall

    Yes, all the rules are important, but #2 is the last resort for safety!
    "I surrounded 'em"- Alvin York

    "They're ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six"- Jeff Cooper

  9. #9
    Administrative Ban Array Bruces45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Warrensburg, NY
    Posts
    1,550
    Quote Originally Posted by Team American
    Fortunately, Rule #2 was being observed and the rifle was pointed straight up into the air...we looked at each other, and I felt about 1 inch tall
    Thats not a "safe" direction either, what goes up must come down. All of us have done it, but I have heard accounts where someone did it and their bullet struck someone when it came back down.

  10. #10
    Member Array Jim_Linch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    154
    There is no safe direction most of the time. If a gun is handled, moved, drawn, re-holstered, etc. it will be covering people, pets, yourself, etc. on a regular basis.

    Keep you finger off the trigger until you want to shoot what you are covering is the most important rule.

    Show me someone who believes that guns should be treated as always loaded, and I'll show you someone who can not clean his gun, dry fire, make ready on a range command, etc.

    Dogma leaves little room for common sense and the 4 gun rules try to lower people to the lowest common denominator IMO. A good starting position for a total newb, but even then they should be expounded on from the start.


    EDIT:
    Team_America points out an exception created by a poor gun design. Having a gun that requires such a dangerous manuver is just asking for trouble.

  11. #11
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South West PA
    Posts
    25,484
    Keep you finger off the trigger until you want to shoot what you are covering is the most important rule.
    Jim - in a way it is a vital rule, sure but then as we are concluding correctly - all rules are needed in unison.

    My only follow-up to that statement tho would be if on loading, let's say ready for carry - there was a slam fire then rule#2 would still be the one to save the day - even if a new hole in the ground!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Pocatello, Idaho
    Posts
    940
    I've always been pretty distressed at the fundamental physics problem with #1.

    Objects at rest do remain at rest. For those who understand this, it undermines anything else Cooper has to say.

    Also, as stated above, it leaves no room for expansion or reasonable situations. If Cooper is followed religiously (and I use that term intentionally as he seems to be often taken as a prophet that one must never disobey), the only place that Glock owners can clean their weapons is on a live firing line.
    Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.

  13. #13
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South West PA
    Posts
    25,484
    the only place that Glock owners can clean their weapons is on a live firing line
    I dunno Robert - I reckon if safety is placed high enough then it'd be little or no problem for any of us - Glock owners maybe in particular - to have a safe corner of the gunroom where a few sandbags can live - and towards which one points when releasing trigger.

    I don't personally feel the need for those but - it sure would be an easy thing to implement if wanted. An ND in my gun area would be thru floor admittedly but - under that is a thick layer of gravel under which is a layer of slate!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  14. #14
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,852
    Guys, I'm doing this from memory, so...

    But as I recall, in his book, "To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth", Cooper himself talks about how he practices working the bolt on his hunting rifle and dry firing at "objects" that appear on TV. I think that breaks a few rules. But, he's never shot his TV.

  15. #15
    Member Array Jim_Linch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    154
    Good illustration Tangle of why we need to get past the "mantra" stage of his treachings. I never met the man, but I would hope that he did not teach his craft to others is a dogmatic a style as the followers I have met of his.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Knucklehead in Utah Forgets First Rule of Firearms Safety
    By lprmcnit in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: January 24th, 2011, 11:54 PM
  2. Biggest Gun You've Carried
    By Ddog0587 in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 92
    Last Post: August 9th, 2009, 01:03 PM
  3. Worlds biggest Dingus
    By Stormtruck2 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: July 27th, 2009, 10:41 PM
  4. Biggest Loser
    By TRICKORMATE in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: October 11th, 2008, 10:56 PM

Search tags for this page

imo safeti net

,

imo saftynet

,

imo smoking room rule

Click on a term to search for related topics.