A gun expediency deal - bit long.

A gun expediency deal - bit long.

This is a discussion on A gun expediency deal - bit long. within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Bit difficult knowing quite where this goes best but I think here will do OK. I had to make one of two rather conflicting decisions ...

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Thread: A gun expediency deal - bit long.

  1. #1
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    A gun expediency deal - bit long.

    Bit difficult knowing quite where this goes best but I think here will do OK.

    I had to make one of two rather conflicting decisions yesterday - and implement today.

    Situation - couple we bike with a lot - good friends and very good people - have a bad-news son who has quit a job (again) and has once more returned home to parasitize on his folks (he went astray long ago). He is heavily into the drug scene and there is good evidence to suggest that he has ripped off guys and upset them. There are at least two, maybe more, heavyweight dudes who probably would like to find him - and these days as we know, tracking folks down ain't as hard as it used to be. Plus - he is deep enough into the drug situation to be up there with the guys who speak with lead as well as words or broken legs.

    Therefore (let's call these friends Sue and Brad) - with Brad away at work all day, Sue is on her own, currently with this scumbag son around. The stress is affecting her a lot and time is ripe to send the boy packing but hey - ya know - blood is thicker than water, still. Biggest concern is that if son's location is found and someone ''comes calling'' - she could be vulnerable and even more of a worry is that the daughter who is a lovely girl, could be there too - and so potential for all sorts of things. I hope very much it may not be long before the son is picked up by the cops.

    Brad has two shotties, a hunting rifle and .22. None of these has been experienced by Sue (I lie - she has plinked with .22 plenty of times), plus - they are not too concealable. Hopefully we'll get her familiarized with a shottie very soon for HD. Long and short is - she needs a handgun, IMO NOW - there is also a benefit because once she has a CCW she can keep it handy when out if she wishes.

    So - what was my conflict? First off - concern over her vulnerability and wanting to be able to feel that she was safe and able to defend herself. Second, was wanting her to have a handgun for herself, right now but - she is new to handguns, totally. So - leave her gunless because she is a newb - or go ahead and get her rather rapidly ''tooled up''. Brad has always been anti handgun, mostly because of early days when kids were small - concerns re safety etc. Anyways when he got back from work yesterday Sue tackled him on this - and fortunately he saw the whole picture and agreed to her getting one. Despite knowing this was jumping her in at the deep end, and I don't like folks being totally new to guns having to suddenly have to cope with one, inexperience and all - I felt this had to be way to go with the possible threats around. Hard to leave her without something.

    They called round last evening and we had a long discussion - plus running thru many platforms and varieties of mine to see what she found felt good and manageable. For me base cal had to .380 and nothing smaller. Most of my 9mm's are too big and no way would they go buy an R9 - apart from which it'd take ages to get one and, not all ladies can manage that one. Snub was reasonable Ok but the only gun she felt really at ease with was the Bersa Thunder. We ran thru all aspects of the gun, drummed in safety rules - and after a bit she was sufficiently aux fait with it to enable her to feel enough confidence to go a step further.

    So this morning I speak with my local FFL to see how long to get a Bersa and how much etc. Praise be - he had one in stock and price was exact same as Gunbroker prices so called Sue to tell her. She was shy on all the cash but I offered to top that up so we could get on it today. We slipped into town - did all the paperwork and got back here with the piece and sufficient time to spare to further go over it and dry fire etc. Also field strip.

    She is a fast learner and I felt enough confidence in her that I could load the gun and let her go home with it stoked up - or in fact put another way - I had her coping well enough so she actually could load and make ready unassisted. The absolute need right now is of course range time but it was not possible today - hopefully tomorrow afternoon we can manage something. Meantime she at least has something on hand which naturally we hope is not needed.

    She asked some very logical questions and got answers but this is one boatload of info to take on board in a hurry - and is not at all what I would normally choose as anyone's intro to handguns, particularly when the emphasis has be on defensive use - but I think I did the right thing and feel more at ease with this set-up than if I'd said - ''no gun yet, until practiced''. If she has any queries after thinking thru all we covered, I am only a phone call away.

    Sorry this is long (Tangle length! hehe Ron ) but thought it might be of interest. Some folks might disagree with my decision but on balance it is her safety I have most in mind.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.


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    Interesting read, I would have to agree that she should be armed if she is going to be placing herself in a situation that could get ugly at any time. She defently needs range time, along with practicing presentation. One key aspect to not forget is mental perperation, you need to be able to do what it takes to be the winner in a gun fight, not to be sexist, but a lot of wemon might hesisate on taking a life. She needs to handle the gun as much as possible to become acquainted with it. Bottom line is blood may be thicker than water, but that kid needs to move on before his parrents pay the price for his misled life.

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    Wow! That was Tangle length; some things just can't be said clearly and would be remiss in anything less than Tangle length.

    Chris, for me to say that's a tough one, would be an understatement. She seems to be on the right track. You were certainly a friend to a friend in need. We need more that are willing to do - like your example. She'll be in my prayers, my friend, you as well, I know you're still concerned about the situation and rightly so.

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    Chris, you do what you think best at the time and you have her safety in mind so no big decision there. Some range time would help to settle your nerves a little and make her comfortable with the handgun. We always think of LA CA when talking drugs but I guess small town USA have their problems as well.
    She has to be on the alert more for changing scenes around her homestead to be prepared. You did the best anyone could to help out.
    Richard
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    May the splinters never point the wrong way.
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    NRA Life Member

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    Thx guys - well to add, following Bruce's mention - we did very much discuss mindset along with awareness etc - all the way to gun shop and back. I instilled on her the gun was not for decoration and that she had better accept the fact that she might have to kill - to protect herself.

    She realized when I explained that if she had enough anger thru a presented threat then she will do OK - but obviously that escape was her first priority if possible. These folks live at the end of a dead-end road - only about five properties around so - another reason why I felt she needed to be able to help herself. A cop response time would be at best I guess 15 minutes minimum - probably longer.

    She had initially the notion of ''shoot to wound'' - until I reminded her that if she is shooting it is to negate a threat to her life - and that the threat needs stopped!

    She took this all on board but agrees that first chance we have to go practice - this is very much an emergency provision just for now. I have every confidence she will manage very well with live fire - she has now got a good attitude, is level headed but most certainly will NOT allow herself to be a victim. Living with fear is no fun - and I shall hope soon things will resolve, without violence.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  6. #6
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    sounds like she needs intensive practice, including stress fire drills. As for the low life son, sometimes ya gotta let go to protect the daughter.

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    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    WAs a good thing for you to Chirs

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    Chris,
    You didn't mention it in the initial post, but I trust you also had a serious discussion about keeping the Bersa secret (or at least safe) from the wayward son. Best case would be he might trade it for drugs, worst case...we don't want to think about.
    Other co-host of the DogWatch Social Club Podcast

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    .45Fan - you are quite right and I did forget to mention about that. Too much on my mind to remember everything today!

    In fact Sue was herself immediately stressing that this is to be very covert indeed. She knows that best case if he knew about it, it'd be sold - and worst case, well - no need to outline that one!! I still have the box for the gun here - gun itself went with her in purse - no prob's there.

    Soon as possible next week I will shoo her off to local County SO to get her CCW permit.

    As I said, Sue is one very savvy woman, if very stressed right now - and will be very sensible. I certainly tho will feel way more at ease once I get her to the range and we go thru live fire practice and drills in general.

    This is still a real ''crash'' course for her - and it'll be a while before that aspect smooths out but hey - this is one of those deals where - looking at the alternatives - we do what we have to do!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Holy Schmolie,I must be missing parts of your post P95. Try this on for size......Why the heck don't they throw the POS,scumbag,doper,outta the house/off the property?????????????????-----------

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    Sounds like you did the right thing.

    Handguns are very simple machines that any idiot should be able to safely use after a 10 minute "4 Rules" lecture and a demonstration of the basic manual of arms.

    The "You shouldn't allow a friend to get a gun until they graduate with honors from Thunder Ranch" attitude annoys me.

    A reasonably intelligent person doesn't need lots of training to be safe/effective with a self defense gun (of course I'm not knocking training ... training will only make you better).

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    Zund - yes she is already safe enough to manage if need be - and sure - no need for ''pre-requisite Thunder Ranch'' LOL!

    I do tho want her to be as good as possible and that she is not right now - competance is not necessarily skill and to make the best of her potential will take practice and some training. I hope to kick this off tomorrow - good excuse to have my wife along too and get her some practice.

    RSSZ - yes, he should have been kicked out that's a given but - there is this ''family'' thing - always that hope for a turnaround. False optimisnm in this case and I think things are coming to a head real soon.

    I have now discovered that seemingly he is dealing crack - just another wonderful aspect to add to his resumé. That's heavy!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  13. #13
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    Chris, it sounds like this woman's son is a big POS. Do you think she is capable of protecting herself from him?

    The parents need to kick him out, pronto.
    Seek safety at the heart of danger.

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    Chris, they are fortunate to have your friendship. Have you any thoughts about involving Brad. When families CCW together, they stay together.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
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    Q - indeed he has become exactly that, total POS .... and yes oh yes - he needs booted soonest. I expect that and/or the cops will pick him up - but short term we have to plan on basis that he is there. In fact - even if he was gone - still a chance for a period of time ''someone'' might still turn up, looking, and cause trouble. These are some heavy dudes he is involved with.

    Despite the fact that he shows little respect anymore for his parents - I doubt the risk from him directly to Sue is too significant, tho he is a strapping big fella. I place that risk way lower.

    More is the ongoing possibility that ''someone'' will be arriving to ''have words'' with him - and as said, the category of people I suspect he is caught up with could well be the types to come in heavy, or even decide to try a retribution on family members - to exert leverage - that sorta thing. I think we have to plan for a worst case right now.

    I can only do so much from where I am - most of that is getting Sue (and hopefully her old man too) up to speed with defensive shooting and awareness and hope they see the light and things settle down after he is out the way.

    It is sad that such good folks who have tried so hard - get this sorta crap.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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