Malfunctions - how many?

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Thread: Malfunctions - how many?

  1. #1
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    Malfunctions - how many?

    My wife and Sue (our friend) are both doing pretty well weith their shooting under my tutilage - kudos to them more than any great shakes on my part!

    I am now wanting to get them into failure drills along with their better familiarization with the Bersa's.

    Got me to thinking just how many discrete drills we may find with semi's.

    FTF and FTE are obvious - and then the old devil stovepipe - which I treat as an entity in its own right. Poorly seated mag of course is quite a common problem causing of course an inevitable FTF, but I guess I am looking primarily at stopages.

    So this is really what might require a ''tap-rack-and bang''. So how many can we identify and name? And then maybe, folk's opinions as to how best to clear.

    If easiest - base description on 1911 platform - it translates pretty much to most others.
    Chris - P95
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    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Well you pretty much hit most the problems on the head and tap rack and bang can solve them all

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    Tap-Rack-Bang will work on several types of weapon malfunctions however, the dreaded double-feed is the one that get you hurt if you don't know how to clear it quickly. It is the most complex clearance drill of them all.

    First step is to lock the slide to the rear, then rip the mag from the mag well, (it will be stuck because the round in the magazine is well forward of the drop clear point.), while holding on to the mag rack the slide 2 or 3 times to clear the round (or brass) from the chamber, (the only thing that can hang you up here is, 1 a broken extractor (which caused the malfunction in the first place, you're toast), or letting the slide forward without sufficient force as to engage the extractor. Next reinsert your mag and rack the slide to chamber, you're back in the fight then.

    The drill to practice this clearance is to lock your slide to the rear, insert a round (or brass) into the chamber, insert a magazine and try to chamber the top round. Now you have a double feed.

    This type of malfunction most often occurs when you have either a broken extractor or one that is weak. It can also happen with a defective or soft case rim.

    As for the other types of malfunctions: The classic "stovepipe" is best cleared by just sweeping your offside hand over the top of the slide. You will sweep away the offending brass and you're ready to go.

    A FTF will most often be easily relieved by a firm "tap" on the bottom of the magazine. If that doesn't work a smack on the back of the slide usually will.
    This is usually gun specific, you have to learn what works for your gun by shooting lots and lots of ammo. Sooner or later you are going to experience each one of these failures.
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    Thx Bob - oh my yes - the dreaded double feed. Nightmare time.

    I just want to try and get the girls sufficiently familiar on this stuff so they are not totally caught in the cold should it happen. These lil' semi's do run very reliably which is good but - Murphy always lurks when least wanted!
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Administrative Ban Array Bruces45's Avatar
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    What about if the mag isn't properly seated and drops out from the recoil from the first shot, They should practice quick mag changes cause it would be better to go for the spare mag in this case so you don't have to take your eyes off the BG to look for the fallen mag.

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    Yep - had covered that Bruce - tho it is not all that likely these girls will have spare mags. Not yet anyways.

    I have thus far been making sure they are good at mag insertions and know when they are latched. Both guns have a positive hold from the mag catch and so problems not too likely. We have tho practiced some drills for when and if mag does detach.
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Administrative Ban Array Bruces45's Avatar
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    Chris, Have they decided how they are going to carry yet?

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    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    Keep it simple. There is only 1 99% cure for a jacked up auto-jet the old mag, rack briskly 3 times, insert the fresh secondary mag, rack, and back into fight. There is only 1 100% cure, the secondary gun.

    Dan

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    Have they decided how they are going to carry yet?
    Bruce - I think I referred to this, maybe on the other thread about training them up.

    Well, my wife's purse is quite suitable but Sue's is not - hers while slightly more secure is too short in the strap to allow easy access fast enough. I want to break them away from purse carry tho.

    I am working on pocket carry now and as it is getting colder this will be I think best as interim - probably see eventually if we can't get some pocket holsters too. They both have a jacket or two which will do just fine when out.

    Longer term I want to get them to properly holster carry - but - neither has ever worn a belt and does not want too! I am exploring the viability of a paddle rig - which if placed over a fairly tight pants waistband just might be stable enough - I think it could work but Kevin of K&D is doing some thinking on it too.
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Chris,
    I think you're right on! You can only prepare in terms of what they are willing to bear as far as guns and extra mags.

    If a double feed occurs, I tend to think the gunfight is over. Of course there's a "immediate action" drill for a double feed, but it takes a lot of time, a spare magazine, and almost a second nature recognition and response.

    One of the worst malfunctions I have ever witnessed was a fellow students 1911. When he fired the gun locked up. When we looked at it, the case of the fired round had reversed itself and re-chambered. It took a while and a multi-plier to fix. No harm to the gun though.

    One of the most troubling malfunctions I have had occurred while doing some speed reload drills at Gunsite. We were firing two rounds, speed reloading and firing two more - or something like that.

    I was shooting a Glock 19. I shot two dropped the mag, reloaded and shot two. We picked up our mag, I put it in my pouch, and ran the drill again. This time the Glock failed to feed. The instructor must have been watching because he immediately came over and said I think you've had a mag jam. I had never heard of such a thing, but he had. It seems that partially loaded stagger loaded mags are especially bad about jamming if they are dropped. Mine had two different jams deep down the stack.
    Last edited by Tangle; October 26th, 2005 at 12:50 PM.

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    I've had three incidents I'll never forget, but luckily, they were all at the range.

    The first was when my Interarms Walther PPK/S suffered a cracked ejector, locking the slide up tight. That was my very first carry gun and that happened a day after I got my permit! With that problem, only Plan B like a second gun would've saved me from having a bad day.

    The second incident was a squib while shooting an aquaintance's 1911 with some reloaded ammo he bought from who-knows-where, which is exactly why you don't buy weird reloaded ammo from who-knows-where. Again, there would be no immediate fix to the problem if I was using that gun in defense, unless I wanted to use it as a bludgeoning tool or grab an alternate weapon.

    The third is a combination of two incidents with the same pistol: the magazine floorplate fell apart while shooting my Para C6.45 LDA, sending ammo dumping all over my feet. The other incident was when the recoil rod assembly literally shot out the front while shooting. Both incidents resulted from poor welding at the factory. Para immediately sent out replacements and said the recoil assemblies were beefed up (most likely due to similar complaints from customers). As much as I loved that little gun, my trust in it went out the window, and I no longer have it.

    Here's a couple pics from my archives - the left being a stovepipe combined with rounds stuck in the magazine (Walther P1), and the picture on the right being a double feed in my SU-16.
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    Ron and Betty - thx a lot for your posts - knowing of other's odd malfunctions helps expand my thinking a lot. Too easy to just think of the ''usual'' problems only, thus reason for the thread.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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