Gifting handgun from father to son in PA.

Gifting handgun from father to son in PA.

This is a discussion on Gifting handgun from father to son in PA. within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So if a father wanted to give a handgun to his son I know there isn't the need for a paper trail, but what about ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    Gifting handgun from father to son in PA.

    So if a father wanted to give a handgun to his son I know there isn't the need for a paper trail, but what about if the son doesn't live in that state?

    Say if the son had to go to an FFL, which state would he go to, the father's or his states FFL?

    Thanks in advance


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array deadeye72's Avatar
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    If it is a FTF transfer, I don't think an FFL is needed. If you are shipping it to him, you may have to. If so, it would be his FFL.
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  3. #3
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    Put it in a box, pick out some nice wrapping paper, and give it to him.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    Thank guys.

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    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadeye72 View Post
    If it is a FTF transfer, I don't think an FFL is needed. If you are shipping it to him, you may have to. If so, it would be his FFL.
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Put it in a box, pick out some nice wrapping paper, and give it to him.
    Nice advice . . . NOT!!

    It's been covered here and every other forum dozens of times in each place.

    FEDERAL Law says NO Interstate Transfers of ANY GUNS unless an FFL is involved. Handguns MUST be transfered in the new owner's home state and long guns can be done in any state (as long as state law allows it).

    Fed Law only allows FTF transfers if both parties are legal residents of the same state.

    Following the suggestions quoted above is a FEDERAL FELONY! Proceed at your own risk!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenS View Post
    Nice advice . . . NOT!!

    It's been covered here and every other forum dozens of times in each place.

    FEDERAL Law says NO Interstate Transfers of ANY GUNS unless an FFL is involved. Handguns MUST be transfered in the new owner's home state and long guns can be done in any state (as long as state law allows it).

    Fed Law only allows FTF transfers if both parties are legal residents of the same state.

    Following the suggestions quoted above is a FEDERAL FELONY! Proceed at your own risk!

    No its not... that only if you mail it or you are selling. Gifts are another matter.

    Oh yeah, just what is a federal felony?

    Please, show me the section where it says I'm wrong.
    Last edited by SIXTO; May 26th, 2008 at 12:28 PM.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    I called Cabella's and asked them. They say that Federal allows you to transfer ownership and/or gift an handgun to your child and the only thing that is needed is a letter stating both the owners name and the recipients name the make, caliber and serial number of the handgun, signed by both parties.

  8. #8
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    You dont even need the letter... a good idea yes, but its not needed.

    ATF Online - Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives they have a nice FAQ section
    "Just blame Sixto"

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    Sixto can you possibly tell me where to find the specific info on the website. I returned from Kuwait about 2 days ago and my internal clock is still a little messed up. Oh, and I am a proud new owner of a PPS....thx dad

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    I really don't care what anyone does here, as long as they understand the risks they are taking.

    Here's a citation and quote.

    US CODE: Title 18,922. Unlawful acts

    Operative parts in this case are as follows:
    18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 178.29

    (a) It shall be unlawful—

    (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
    (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
    (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

    As for the Federal Felony, it is a Felony under the Federal system, thus it matters not what state law has to say about it. If you find that funny, perhaps you'd enjoy an all expense paid vacation at Club Fed? Personally that isn't where I'd like to end up just to get a gun w/o "paper"! YMMV

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    Sale or transfer of firearms - 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 6111 - Pennsylvania Attorney Resources - Pennsylvania Laws Look under (C) Duty of other persons. This granted is a state law not a federal law. But like I stated before I contacted Cabela's, which is the location that sold the gun to my father. The guy asked one of the workers with an FFL and told me that it was ok to give as a gift. So tecnically what you have shown me says that PA is violating Federal law allowing parents to give handguns to their children.

  12. #12
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    Section 5 Exception A says I'm right in this circumstance. Remember, laws on the book have to say its illegal for it to be illegal. If there is no mention of it, then you are OK.
    This circumstance has nothing to do with federal statutes, everything to do with state law.

    Federal Felony; thats just funny.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    State law is not always in sync with Fed Law and vice versa.

    That is why BATFE sends two books to all FFL holders (no matter if dealer, collector or gunsmith): Fed Law and one on State Laws listing most pertinent points wrt transfers for all 50 + US Territories.

    Not absolutely certain but I do believe that pre-GCA'68 there were no Fed restrictions on transfers across state lines. PA law may have been written prior to GCA'68 and if so, that could account for the discrepancy.

    One must abide by both State (2 in these cases) and Fed laws to stay out of trouble.

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Section 5 Exception A says I'm right in this circumstance. Remember, laws on the book have to say its illegal for it to be illegal. If there is no mention of it, then you are OK.
    This circumstance has nothing to do with federal statutes, everything to do with state law.

    Federal Felony is funny its a made for T.V. term.

    You better read the legal definition of "bequest"!

    Source: Black's Law Dictionary

    Bequest - A gift by will of personal property; a legacy.
    Wills don't come into play until the giftor is deceased. I certainly didn't read that into the OP's post. Parents frequently want to gift things to their children while they are still alive to see the child enjoy the gift. Regrettably the BATFE does NOT have an exception for this.

    BTW: I recently had to correct a BATFE agent on this exact case as he had provided incorrect info to a group of LEOs. When I pointed it out to him (privately) that the giftor was still alive, he acknowledged that he had erred.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array cuban11182's Avatar
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    So then why did the FFL's at Cabela's tell me that its ok. If they receive these books you are speaking about

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