Firearms Storage: Do not be this guy

Firearms Storage: Do not be this guy

This is a discussion on Firearms Storage: Do not be this guy within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I just got in from 2 hrs. of home visits and review within my market. We're doing a market valuation effort and as part of ...

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Thread: Firearms Storage: Do not be this guy

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Firearms Storage: Do not be this guy

    I just got in from 2 hrs. of home visits and review within my market.
    We're doing a market valuation effort and as part of this we go out with our realtor and see what the market will bear as well as looks like. We do this every 2 or 3 yrs. regardless of where we live in the moment.

    We arrive at the last of several homes and as we walk through the front door I look off to the hard left to see a tall wooden with glass front traditional gun cabinet standing in the far corner. It is facing the hall and standing within plain view to his front yard via front corner window.
    The case door had a simple key lock to it and the key itself was in the lock.
    Inside the case was a Remington 870, a bolt action rifle that was not recognizable to me and a second shotgun which I could not identify.

    The sellers realtor was onsite having met us there to greet and show us around.
    I commented to her that in MA storage of a firearm per state law in this manner was unlawful. Being specific the cabinet is fine but leaving the key in the lock to the cabinet is not. It's same as leaving the case door open.

    I advised her to remove the key and place it in a hidden area where the homeowner could readily reach it but was hidden from plain view.
    So she grasped the key, turned it, and opened (!) the case. She then closed and turned the key a half turn back to relock it and removed the key placing it at the top left leading edge corner of the case and asked if that would be okay. I said nope, it's in plain view. So she moved it to the left rear trailing edge and asked if that would work, to which again I replied; "Nope. I can see it as I walk up. I'm 6'1" and the case is just about 5'10" or 11"."

    On top of the cabinet was a baseball cap amongst a bunch of kitsch folded in the rear.
    I advised she maybe put the key inside the hat at the folds. Instead she reached over to a hanging shelf and lifted a large candle stickholder and placed the key under it's base.
    I commented that would be fine and to alert the homeowner that the firearm handling and storage laws in MA are very clear about this type of thing. As well this being MA if God forbid his home were to be burglarized or some fool walk through as I am, or his child, and they were to open the key in the lock case and handle/mishandle any of the firearms then he the homeowner would have liability as per criminal law, not just civil. Further if they were burglarized and the guns hit the streets and later were found to have been used in commission of a crime then again he could find himself with criminal liability due to improper and unsafe firearms storage.
    I told the realtor this is not legal theory. It has and does happen and there was a case toward as much just recently a few years back toward similar where the firearms owner was found to be culpable and criminally liable.
    She then replied; "And what if I were here alone with someone and they got hold of it?!". To that I commented stuff like that does occur in your industry, it's not unheard of nationally. But in this case it's likely these arms are not stored in a loaded condition.
    Frankly I have no idea what the status of those weapons were toward the two shotguns magazines. It's very possible they were loaded. But I didn't want to further alarm the young lady.

    This is not the exact case I saw but it looked very similar to this...


    Bottom Line:
    Do not be this guy.
    Regardless of state laws and penalty potential, it's just not smart nor wise to leave they key in as it was. It's not a key it's a door handle at that point.
    Further if this guy were to have suffered say a home invasion what would prevent a _criminal_ from simply opening his key in the lock case and using his own firearms against him or his family? Nothing, nothing at all.
    Not smart, not wise...and key left in lock is not lawful either.

    - Janq

    P.S. - IMHO these type of cabinets are fubar anyway. It's nothing but thin plate glass keeping me from reaching in and taking what I want anyway regardless of the cheap lock and the units darkly stained pine board construction.
    Might as well get a real and actually secure cabinet or secondarily secure the firearms within the 'display' cabinet (it's not security in any real sense of the word) by cabling them to each other and/or installing locks to each of them individually.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I guess you're just appalled by things like this, huh? I've got one similiar to it in my living room. The finish is quite a bit better, but when my Great Granddad built something, he built it to last. I think I'll keep it around.

    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Having lived in Texas, I would call that leaving food out for the coyotes. Can you do it? May you be reasonably secure in your area? Sure. As I tell my wife, however, it sure would suck to walk in the door and be looking down the barrel of my own shotty...

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    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    The one thing that amazes me is how otherwise responsible gun owners will not secure their guns sufficiently against theft. The worst are probably the once that leave a handgun in a car overnight, and are surprised if it gets stolen. Must absolutely suck to later hear how a law abiding citizen got killed / hurt with it.

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    VIP Member Array deadeye72's Avatar
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    I never really cared for those kind of cabinets. Having a lock on them is a joke. I guess for keeping little kids from gaining access to your guns they are o.k., but for protecting your investment and your butt, you need some kind of safe.
    Glock 27
    BENELLI NOVA

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    I guess you're just appalled by things like this, huh?
    Appalled, nope.
    From that view for all I know the firearms could be individually locked by trigger assy. or chamber.

    Agreed Paul J, 100%.

    Oh and the funny thing about this, I was carrying my SIG 'GSR' cocked and locked with 8+1 and I'd also had on a 10 rd. mag as a secondary.
    Concealed from anyones sight of course.

    As I turned and walked out the den she asked if I were cop. I replied; " No I'm just a guy who knows a little about how the law is and works. But if I were a MA cop, say a state police, then I'd may be duty bound to cite the homeowner for non-compliance with well known and very clear in verbiage state law. That citation could affect his license to possess current or upon renewal prove to be a problem for him down the road."

    More importantly though if I were a criminal minded person I'd have said nothing, palmed the key, and return later in the day to score me three new long guns...or had my party divert her attention to the backyard or basement as I return to the cabinet and clear it out to my car as parked in the front driveway. Neither would have been difficult to pull off.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    In some states that glass cased gun case it not sufficient for state law,that is why you don't find them for sale anymore just the metal gun safes that require a lot more effort to get into than just breaking a glass window,but If the guns all have gun locks then storing them in that case would meet gun law in most states
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  8. #8
    bae
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    I live in a remote, rural area. Law enforcement response time is 30 mins to several hours.

    How am I supposed to grab a rifle if I need one, if I have it stored Massachusetts-style?

    Lukcily, I don't live in the Massachusetts...

  9. #9
    Member Array Rivers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bae View Post
    I live in a remote, rural area. Law enforcement response time is 30 mins to several hours.

    How am I supposed to grab a rifle if I need one, if I have it stored Massachusetts-style?
    You can't. That's why everyone should have a grenade stash!

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    I guess you're just appalled by things like this, huh?
    At the ignorance of one's own state laws about cuffin'-n-stuffin' for such things, sure. Not in the mode of storage, though.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    At the ignorance of one's own state laws about cuffin'-n-stuffin' for such things, sure. Not in the mode of storage, though.
    Please clarify. I am unaware of any Texas law that requires firearms to be locked up or disabled. If this were true, I would guess about half of Texas residents could be arrested for the .22 or shotgun that is inevitably sitting next to the front door. Or the .38 on most people's nightstands. Or the rifle rack in the back window of a lot of trucks.

    You do know that I live in TX, not D.C., right? I thought there was some supreme court case going on right about now about how it was unconstitutional to require people to keep their firearms locked up or not readily operational.

    And I don't even know what cuffin'-n-stuffin' means. I tried a google search but it only turned up gibberish.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

    http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

    Who is John Galt?

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    Member Array msg usa's Avatar
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    HMPF.......I sure am glad I don't live in MA......
    God Bless the USA

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    Please clarify. I am unaware of any Texas law ...
    The thread is about MA law.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    The thread is about MA law.
    The thread was about being irresponsible for storing guns in any place other than a $3000 safe.
    Quote Originally Posted by OP
    Bottom Line:
    Do not be this guy.
    Regardless of state laws and penalty potential, it's just not smart nor wise to leave they key in as it was.
    I'm sorry, but this is one of the topics that gets me riled up. Just because some of you live in some Comy state that requires locks or a safe, doesn't mean the rest of us are irresponsible.

    I remember taking the drill and hanging a gun rack above my bed to hang up my 30-30 and my .22 when I was about 10. I guess in your states my parents should have been arrested.

    It's not like that everywhere. There are still places where we stand up for ourselves and we take responsibility for our own actions. There are people left who do not require the government to make our choices for us.

    I don't need my decisions sactioned by the government. As far as if this places me at risk for theft, I challenge you to find a safe that a determined burglar with 8 hours of free time cannot get into. I am assuming you are talking about if I am at work and somebody robs my home, right? 8-9 hours is a lot of time for somebody to drill a safe.

    By the way, things are different here. The last time a UPS driver turned up my driveway(yesterday) I got two phone calls from neighbors. 1 of them asked if I was expecting a package, the other asked if I wanted him to pick it up for me.

    If a thief wants to try to rob my house, he has more to worry about than the police showing up, or trying to get through a safe. I challenge him to get up the driveway without being noticed. Then he needs to get past my dogs. Then he needs to defeat my alarm system.

    If you break into my house, you're going to get shot...coming and going. That's just how we do it here.

    I have a rifle in my trunk(loaded) and a revolver in my console(also loaded). If I am outside of my home I have a pistol with me. My neighbors are the same. I know everyone of them by name and I know when their second cousin has the flu. I know that Jerry hates Kimbers(although I am trying to change his mind) and I know that Vince won't carry anything but a 1911. He thinks plastic belongs in the kitchen.

    So if you think my gun rack is an easy target or irresponsible, I would have to say that I believe it is pretty well protected.

    So, maybe the gun cabinet that Janq found was 'illegal' in his state...but his thread title was for us to 'not be that guy.' Well, that guy has a nicer cabinet then I have, and I don't think that makes me irresponsible.
    Last edited by Kerbouchard; May 31st, 2008 at 01:19 AM.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

    http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

    Who is John Galt?

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    The thread was about being irresponsible for storing guns in any place other than a $3000 safe.
    That's one way to read it. Either way, nobody's jabbing fingers in your chest.

    I get riled by bureaucratic attempts at intelligent nannyism, as well.

    But in point of fact, the thread's topic post is about a specific MA home and ignorance of applicable MA law. To some, the reading is that not being so ignorant of one's applicable laws is a better road to follow. Leastwise, it certainly helps keep your keister out of a sling that's swung by sniveling bureaucrats and a criminal legislature.

    If we're going to read the general case on storage, let's state the general case: safe storage (not safe storage in anything but a $3000+ safe). I'd be willing to bet, KB, that your firearms on your wall or in your case are more secure behind the early warning cordon at your home than the originally-referenced MA homeowner's locked home.

    To each his own.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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