How many guns vs the law?

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Thread: How many guns vs the law?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Hivoltage's Avatar
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    How many guns vs the law?

    Over the past few years, I have bought maybe 15 guns, and only still have 7 of them, the rest I didnt care for and sold.

    My question is, is there any kind of a flag that pops up to the law for individuals that purchase a lot of pistols and revolvers? How long do they keep records of purchesed guns....forever?
    Nothing Wrong With Shooting as Long as the Right People Get Shot.
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    The only report I know of is if you purchase multiple handguns from the same dealer on the within five days. As far as the 4473’s are concerned the dealer must hold them and if the shop is closed they are handed over to the BATF along with all transfer records.

    From the ATF regs
    (F5) As a licensed dealer, must I advise ATF if I sell more than one handgun to an individual?

    If you sell or dispose of more than one handgun to any nonlicensee during a period of 5 consecutive business days, the sale must be reported on ATF Form 3310.4, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers, not later than the close of the business day on which you sold or disposed of the second handgun. The licensee must forward a copy of the Form 3310.4 to the ATF office specified thereon, and another copy must be forwarded to the State police or local law enforcement agency where the sale occurred.

    A copy of the Form 3310.4 also must be attached to the firearms transaction record, ATF Form 4473, documenting the sale or disposition of the second handgun. A business day for purposes of reporting multiple sales of pistols or revolvers is a day that a licensee conducts business pursuant to the license, regardless of whether State offices are open. The application of the term “business day” is, therefore, distinguishable from the term “business day” as used in the NICS context.

    Example: A licensee conducts business only on Saturdays and Sundays, days on which State offices are not open. The licensee sells a pistol to an unlicensed person on a Saturday. If that same unlicensed person acquires another handgun the next day (Sunday), the following Saturday or Sunday, or the Saturday after the
    reporting requirement would be triggered, the subsequent acquisition of a handgun would have to be reported on a Form 3310.4 by the close of the day upon which the second or subsequent handgun was sold.
    [18 U.S.C. 923(g)(3), 27 CFR 478.126a]
    The full regs may be found here http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pu...04/q_and_a.pdf
    Last edited by msgt/ret; July 12th, 2008 at 11:06 PM. Reason: Additional info and link

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    Member Array Rusty Bouquett's Avatar
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    You can bet your bippy that when it comes to privately owned firearms the government NEVER loses track of the records. As a matter of fact I'd bet my next paycheck they know more about your gun purchases and sales than they do of the whereabouts of violent parolees.

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    VIP Member Array artz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Bouquett View Post
    You can bet your bippy that when it comes to privately owned firearms the government NEVER loses track of the records. As a matter of fact I'd bet my next paycheck they know more about your gun purchases and sales than they do of the whereabouts of violent parolees.
    I firmly believe that myself....
    " Refuse to be a victim, make sure there is a round chambered ! "

    Just call me a pessimistic optimist !

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  6. #5
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    In WA the State keeps a record of all dealer purchased handguns... I'm not real keen on that personally but at least their pretty easy going on everything else.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    Interesting, but I don't worry about it. Guns come and go and to sort out a 100 zillion records even if they existed, would freeze up most resources for decades if it was possible.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertac45 View Post
    ... to sort out a 100 zillion records even if they existed, would freeze up most resources for decades if it was possible.
    Actually, any well-indexed database table containing basic data about a transaction can come back nearly instantly despite millions of records. (I do this sort of thing with fair frequency for my business.) This would be multi-millions of records per year, sure, but then computer haven't been around for more than about ~35-40 years keeping track of all of this stuff. Back further than that, you can bet it was on paper, and that the bulk of those paper records will not have been transcribed. Largely, anymore, it's simply a matter of disk space and proper records. The retrieval is trivial, assuming the transaction data has been captured.

    As for whether the data's captured and tracked accurately today? Sure, it's captured. Is it accurately tracked? I'm sure there are errors in this effort, as with any other.
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    Senior Member Array Hivoltage's Avatar
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    Ahhh, **** on it, I am buying another gun anyhow.
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    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    new gun

    thats the spirit. go shopping.
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    the world coming too"

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  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    ...As far as the 4473’s are concerned the dealer must hold them and if the shop is closed they are handed over to the BATF along with all transfer records.

    From the ATF regs


    The full regs may be found here http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pu...04/q_and_a.pdf
    Which is why many FFL's seem to go out of business as the result of having a big fire in their shop...


    I'm just sayin...


    You shouldn't smoke in a gunshop.

    I know several FFL's that refuse to automate or computerize their records and just keep everything in paper format, the ATF Form 4473's and their ledgers.
    (they are heavy smokers too!)
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    VASP are allowed to keep the records for a period of time if more than a certain number of weapons are purchased in a 30 day period. I think the number of weapons is 5, and the records are retained for 1 year.

  13. #12
    Member Array CJS3's Avatar
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    Why would anyone believe that Our Gubmint would be able to track the 10's of millions of gun transactions that have occured in the last 50 years? They can't keep track of dedicated terrorist or career criminals with any certainty. You may trigger a red flag on a data base with a large purchase, but the person who's going to look into it is on a break, or lunch ,or it's not my job. Hey guys, it's the government!

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