A very delicate situation
This is a discussion on A very delicate situation within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I would think it's not an acceptable practice in a training environment to move from your station to another shooter's station while the line is ...
July 28th, 2008 08:55 AM
I would think it's not an acceptable practice in a training environment to move from your station to another shooter's station while the line is live. It's up to an instructor to call a cease fire and deal with the student having difficulty. Safety first, and people acting independently (moving about) on a live fire range is generally an unsafe practice.
When in doubt, just ask yourself, "What would Theodore Roosevelt do?"
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July 28th, 2008 09:14 AM
That's not true - anyone that observes an unsafe condition may call a cease fire, and everyone on the line is obligated to abide by it. If your range or training class operates differently then I would either find a new place to shoot/train or see about correcting that problem.
July 28th, 2008 09:42 AM
That is correct, ANYONE can call a cease fire at anytime.
I once had a guy flagging me on the line with his weapon when doing tactical reloads. He would turn his gun toward me in his hand (with round in chamber) to drop his mag, put said mag in his pocket and insert another mag, then get back on target and keep shooting. You had better believe I called a cease fire and was in his face like a DI for that one. He was promptly relieved of his gun and had to sit out the rest of the class waiting for private instuction.
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July 28th, 2008 11:20 AM
When i go to the range ( or for that matter to the farm ) shooting with a group that may have novice women in it I roll up one of the wifes t shirts and tuck it into my range duffle along with a bunch of the disposable corded ear plugs ( donated by construction companys over the years lol ), and a couple of " gimme caps " to loan . I also make it a point to take a cooler with about a case of bottled water , and the powdered gatorade and instant tea . A size Medium T shirt is not truly one size fits all , but for most it beats the heck out of whatever " cool " shirt some gals show up wearing . It normally only takes pointing out how brass hits some of the male shooters to convince the gals that its a great idea to cover up a bit while on the line .
The worst i ever had was when i went from shooting a pet rifle out at 600 yards ( on the local natnl grasslands range ) to the dueling trees they have on the pistol range , a matter of 20 steps or so and i forgot to turn my cap back around , got a piece of brass between my glasses and my face . That is not a mistake you make twice so i can somewhat understand the " hot brass dance " a gal may do when brass might find its way to tender areas . As much as i enjoy the dress of some ladies i prefer to be the " hero " by anticipating a problem that they did not realize existed , besides any firearm waived about as can happen then is imho unhealthy .
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July 28th, 2008 11:27 AM
Kinda reminds me of when I was following a gal on another motorcycle a few years back.... she had a wasp drop down the front of her shirt.
She immediately whipped the shirt over head and took it off, allowing the wasp to escape. Wearing nothing under the t-shirt prompted me to accelerate and 'look' and see if she was all right.
She was !
July 28th, 2008 11:54 AM
I'd suggest as others and say to call a cease fire and offer to take control of her pistol while she does what she has to do. Also, there's also this one...
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July 28th, 2008 02:01 PM
If she maintained proper muzzle-discipline, sounds like it worked out okay. The instructors in the classes I've been to just tell people to holster up and deal with the brass (or suck it up and deal with it when you're done with the course of fire).
The instructor probably should have said something about wearing a shirt that would have done a better job of protecting her from flying shell-casings.
"Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina
If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.
July 28th, 2008 02:04 PM
Bet she won't wear that shirt again when shooting.
U.S. Army retired
July 28th, 2008 02:37 PM
I've had students who have done the dance in that scenario, some keep the muzzle pointed downrange and others forget they have a gun in their hand and wave it around endangering others.
A female officer in Fla had that happen while she was in uniform in one of my courses for the LE down there. I relieved her of the gun asap as I could see she was not going to be muzzle aware in her attempt to "get the shell out". She just made it worse pulling the shirt away from her body, and it landed on the top of her vest and sat there.
I'd be very cautious about how you relieve the person of the gun, no matter what gender but think relieving them of that real liability while they're doing the boo boo dance is prudent.
Why wait for them to paint someone when you can keep the muzzle downrange until you relieve them of same. If they aren't doing the boo boo dance and dealing with the pain, fine. If they start dancing around, it's an accident waiting to happen, I feel the need to move in and take it from them.
When I have relieved another of that weapon, they've been happy to be able to use two hands to rectify their situatuion.
Last edited by AzQkr; July 28th, 2008 at 03:39 PM.
July 28th, 2008 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by DaveT
You weirdo! that was ME!
July 28th, 2008 04:54 PM
I agree the instructor should have covered the basic types of range apparel better. It should include more than eyes and ears.
letting someone on the range with inappropriate clothing can be a hazard to everyone.
I would step back away from the line and keep an eye on the muzzle. If it comes out of the firing line and to a danger zone I would tell the person to keep the gun pointed down range.
Also no open toe shoes or sandals.
I see folk with flipflops and the hiking type shoes that have holes/large spaces in them. That is just a place for brass to land and stay while it cools off.
That is also asking for trouble.
Heck just last week while at the range I was hit in the leg with some hot brass and I could feel the "burn" as it bounced off.
July 28th, 2008 05:13 PM
Range safety officer's responsibility.
Originally Posted by atctimmy
July 28th, 2008 05:21 PM
If one has to "dance" when a hot casing goes somewhere unexpected, one might reconsider such dangerous and potentially harmful activity as "force response."
Originally Posted by exactlymypoint
Now if a belt-fed is dumping on one, I can see getting excited, otherwise...
July 28th, 2008 05:22 PM
Range safety officer's responsibility.
IMO, everyone on a shooting range is a safety officer. See something unsafe, say something or make the range officers aware of it immediately.
Even the act of informing a range/safety officer of a potential or atual event they've seen is in itself being a safety officer. The more eyes watching the better.
I agree the instructor should have covered the basic types of range apparel better
People should not only train with the gear they carry on the street, they should not be restricted to some rule of range apparel, they get to wear anything they'd normally wear out in public. Thats how their going to be dressed when they may need to use the firearm. In that regard, people learn pretty quick that certain dress codes come with certain risks like this one discussed here. Better to learn how to deal with it on the range during training than on the streets when it's your butt on the line.
July 28th, 2008 06:03 PM
I usually go over that with new women we take shooting. I have some instructions I give, but never thought about the point you brought up.
Originally Posted by AzQkr
Do you actually have a procedure for freeing the hot brass?
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