Info on C&R firearms

Info on C&R firearms

This is a discussion on Info on C&R firearms within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I have a beretta model 1934 serial # Exxxxx manufactured in 1958 that i am selling. the seller has asked me if i can mail ...

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Thread: Info on C&R firearms

  1. #1
    Member Array spyshot's Avatar
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    Info on C&R firearms

    I have a beretta model 1934 serial # Exxxxx manufactured in 1958 that i am selling. the seller has asked me if i can mail it to him skipping the ffl since he has a C&R license.

    according to this link here, my firearm IS a C&R firearm. Firearms Curios or Relics List

    but it's not lised in this list at this link of approved C&R firearms.
    Firearms Curios or Relics List

    what am i missing?


    second, if my firearm IS a C&R, can i send it to him without going through a ffl holder? and do i need to request a copy of his C&R license?

    whew!

    thanks for any input!


  2. #2
    New Member Array Coyote Blue's Avatar
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    Info on C&R firearms

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I have a beretta model 1934 serial # Exxxxx manufactured in 1958 that i am selling. the seller has asked me if i can mail it to him skipping the ffl since he has a C&R license.

    according to this link here, my firearm IS a C&R firearm. Firearms Curios or Relics List

    but it's not lised in this list at this link of approved C&R firearms.
    Firearms Curios or Relics List

    what am i missing?


    second, if my firearm IS a C&R, can i send it to him without going through a ffl holder? and do i need to request a copy of his C&R license?

    whew!

    thanks for any input!
    Here are the ATF rules on Curio & Relics:

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#g2
    G. COLLECTORS


    (G1) Is there a specific license which permits a collector to acquire firearms in interstate commerce? [Back]

    Yes. A person may obtain a collector's license. However, this license applies only to transactions in curio or relic firearms.

    [18 U.S.C. 923(b), 27 CFR 478.41(c), (d), 478.50(b) and 478.93]


    (G2) Does a collector's license afford any privileges to the licensee with respect to acquiring or disposing of firearms other than curios or relics in interstate or foreign commerce? [Back]

    No. A licensed collector has the same status under the GCA as a non-licensee except for transactions in curio or relic firearms.

    [27 CFR 478.93]




    (G3) Does a license as a collector of curio or relic firearms authorize the collector to engage in the business of dealing in curios or relics? [Back]

    No. A dealer's license must be obtained to engage in the business of dealing in any firearms, including curios or relics.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a) and 923(a), 27 CFR 478.41]




    (G4) Since a licensed firearms dealer may legally deal in curio or relic firearms, is there any reason why a dealer would need both a dealer's license and collector's license? [Back]

    No. A collector's license enables a collector to obtain curio or relic firearms interstate. A person holding a dealer's license may also acquire curio or relic firearms interstate, and so there is no need for a licensed dealer to obtain a collector’s license.


    (G5) Are licensed collectors required to execute ATF Form 4473 for transactions in curio or relic firearms? [Back]

    No. However, licensed collectors are required to keep a "bound book" record.

    [27 CFR 478.125(f)]




    (G6) Are licensed collectors’ transfers of curio or relic firearms subject to the Brady law, including the provision for making background checks on transferees? [Back]

    No, but it is unlawful to transfer a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is a felon or is within any other category of person prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms. See also Questions P12 and P13.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(d), 27 CFR 478.32(d)]


    (G7) Are licensed collectors required to comply with the requirements that written notification be given to handgun transferees and signs be posted on juvenile handgun possession? [Back]

    The requirement that written notification concerning juvenile handgun possession be given by licensees to a non-licensee to whom a handgun is delivered applies to curio or relic handguns transferred by licensed collectors. However, the sign posting requirement does not apply to licensed collectors.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(x), 27 CFR 478.103]




    (G8) Are licensed collectors required to turn in their acquisition/disposition records to ATF if their collector’s license is not renewed or they discontinue their collecting activity? [Back]

    No. The GCA requires the delivery of required records to the Government within 30 days after a firearms “business” is discontinued. A license as a collector of curios or relics does not authorize any business with respect to firearms. Therefore, the records required to be kept by licensed collectors under the law and regulations are not business records and are not required to be turned in to ATF when collectors' licenses are not renewed or collecting activity under such licenses is discontinued.

    [18 U.S.C. 923(g)(4), 27 CFR 478.127]

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    You can send a qualified gun directly to him as you ARE sending to an FFL. He is an FFL for the purposes of collecting and if the gun is eligible (this one appears it is) then you are sending it through an FFL.... him.... You should ask for a copy of his License before you ship. Then you can and should ship it as if you were sending it to an FFL.

    If the gun is in original configuration and over 50 years old it is a C&R. However if the gun is in an altered configuration it would not be. For example if the gun was restocked in some non traditional obvious way then it would lose its C&R. An example of that would be, for instance, an SKS made in 1955 that someone had put a tactical stock onto. Was a C&R in original configuration and now is not in original configuration so now not a C&R. Or lets look at another example, a M1 Carbine made by IBM that can be traced by its serial number to 1943 in its original configuration from at least 50 years ago (stock and bands and sights etc) is a C&R. But Auto Ordnance still makes a M1 Carbine but it is newly made so it is not a C&R. It must be BOTH in original Configuration and more than 50 years old.

  4. #4
    Member Array jwr747's Avatar
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    the 50 year rule for a weapon made in 1958 is effective 12/31/2008 at midnight.or 1/1/09.if you have paper work saying the date of manufacture,it's 50 years from that date. other wise it's assumed the weapon was made the last day of the year.the " origional configuration" rules normally apply to "listed weapons" SKS's with the grenade launcher are C&R,cut the launcher off it's not. a 1957 SKS is.it's over 50. jwr

  5. #5
    Member Array Thiokol's Avatar
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    spyshot,

    Jwr747 is absolutely correct. Also, I'm sure that you already know this, but just in case, you must be an 01 FFL to ship a handgun through the mail.
    U.S. Air Force Veteran
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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Yes he is. He did the math. This one would be very close to the line of it being 50 years now that he mentions it. And Thiokol is correct in pointing out, no USPO for handguns like Long guns for us non "real FFL's"

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