Glock 17C + Retention Postition = DANGEROUS!

Glock 17C + Retention Postition = DANGEROUS!

This is a discussion on Glock 17C + Retention Postition = DANGEROUS! within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Recently, a group of friends and I have been meeting once a week to improve our gun handling skills and self defense tactics. For the ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array the_fallguy's Avatar
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    Glock 17C + Retention Postition = DANGEROUS!

    Recently, a group of friends and I have been meeting once a week to improve our gun handling skills and self defense tactics. For the last several weeks we have focused on shooting from the retention position, working with all kinds of things from dry firing drills to scenario training with airsoft pistols. Last week was the first "live fire" practice that we have held, which for the most part went pretty well, with one exception:

    One friends, who carries a Glock 17C (the ported 9mm), complained that shooting it from the retention position was very uncomfortable. I offered to loan him and extra Glock slide for the next shooting rotation to see if there was a big difference. When we got under better lighting I noticed three or four spots on his lips and his cheek were bleeding! Not a lot; about like a pinpricks would, but I could imagine what might have happened if some of the debris had hit him in the eye. We were all wearing hearing and eye protection, but he said he could still feel the gas rushing up behind his safety glasses. After switching my slide for his, there were no similar experiences.

    In the past, whenever anyone has asked about using a ported pistol for self defense, I have tried to dissuade them because shooting from a retention position with a ported pistol can be likened to the experience of jumping off the high dive without a nose plug. Still, if they wanted to endure the discomfort, that was their perogative. After this, I have decidedly changed my answer to ABSOLUTELY DON'T DO IT!!! The benefits of porting are completely offset by the possibility of injury, at least in a self defense gun.

    I just wanted to let you guys no so nobody else runs the risk of getting hurt shooting a ported pistol from a retention position. Things could have been much worse than a few scratches. Although I haven't tried others, I somehow don't think the possible dangers of doing this would be isolated to one type of ammunition or firearm. Still, for those who are wondering, the ammunition he was shooting was Winchester "White Box".

    I would be interested in hearing if anyone else has had a similar experience.
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  2. #2
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    Yup, I had to drop a non-ported barrel into my Glock because of this.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Now, don't be a hater, and let empirical testing fly in the face of "equally valid opinions..."

  4. #4
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    Yes, any experianced combat shooter will tell you a ported SD gun is a bad idea.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    In one of the defensive handgun courses I took, the instructor (can't recall if it was Randy Cain or Gabe Suarez) pointed this out to the class. A well-endowed young lady was shooting a ported Glock and immediately realized that the instructor was correct and switched to a non-ported gun for the remainder of the class.

    Another defensive handgun instructor I know and occasionally shoot with told me that he saw someone's shirt catch fire from retention shooting with a ported gun.

    YMMV but be careful out there.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array the_fallguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    Now, don't be a hater, and let empirical testing fly in the face of "equally valid opinions..."
    I guess I don't get what you're driving at here. Please explain...
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    Where self preservation is concerned, if you're not cheating, your not trying...

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array the_fallguy's Avatar
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    I have always agreed with ported SD guns being a bad idea, however, this is the first time I witnessed an "injury" from it other than powder in the eyes.
    The retention position used was from the Shivworks Series.
    I know other retention positions might yield different results, but I have to say that this is the best one I have come across for dynamic training.
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    Where self preservation is concerned, if you're not cheating, your not trying...

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOOM-STICK Holsters View Post
    I guess I don't get what you're driving at here. Please explain...
    Sarcasm. I was saying you shouldn't take something you have demonstrated to be hazardous to health and well-being as being more valid than the opinions of those who "don't think so..."

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array the_fallguy's Avatar
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    Gotcha.....
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    Where self preservation is concerned, if you're not cheating, your not trying...

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array f8lranger4x4's Avatar
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    Yep buddy had this problem during qualifications.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    This is a valid concern, I believe ported guns belong on the range and the fact that when shooting any ported gun from "retention"close to body there is a very real possibility you will get muzzle blast in the face,the larger the cartridge the more blast
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  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    Common sense tells you ported handguns make lousy self defense pistols;especially low light conditions.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOOM-STICK Holsters View Post
    Recently, a group of friends and I have been meeting once a week to improve our gun handling skills and self defense tactics. For the last several weeks we have focused on shooting from the retention position, working with all kinds of things from dry firing drills to scenario training with airsoft pistols. Last week was the first "live fire" practice that we have held, which for the most part went pretty well, with one exception:

    One friends, who carries a Glock 17C (the ported 9mm), complained that shooting it from the retention position was very uncomfortable. I offered to loan him and extra Glock slide for the next shooting rotation to see if there was a big difference. When we got under better lighting I noticed three or four spots on his lips and his cheek were bleeding! Not a lot; about like a pinpricks would, but I could imagine what might have happened if some of the debris had hit him in the eye. We were all wearing hearing and eye protection, but he said he could still feel the gas rushing up behind his safety glasses. After switching my slide for his, there were no similar experiences.

    In the past, whenever anyone has asked about using a ported pistol for self defense, I have tried to dissuade them because shooting from a retention position with a ported pistol can be likened to the experience of jumping off the high dive without a nose plug. Still, if they wanted to endure the discomfort, that was their perogative. After this, I have decidedly changed my answer to ABSOLUTELY DON'T DO IT!!! The benefits of porting are completely offset by the possibility of injury, at least in a self defense gun.

    I just wanted to let you guys no so nobody else runs the risk of getting hurt shooting a ported pistol from a retention position. Things could have been much worse than a few scratches. Although I haven't tried others, I somehow don't think the possible dangers of doing this would be isolated to one type of ammunition or firearm. Still, for those who are wondering, the ammunition he was shooting was Winchester "White Box".

    I would be interested in hearing if anyone else has had a similar experience.
    Excellent point...

    How many times have posters asked if they should have their SD guns ported?
    Anyone who has considered this or has asked this question, should pay attention to this OP. OMO

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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    I definitely agree with the no-porting of SD pistols.

    I just have one question, however...

    Why in the world would one port a 9mm?
    Last edited by Cuda66; August 21st, 2008 at 12:00 AM. Reason: typomatic
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  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    I took the trip to the gun shop with a friend. He sold his G17 for profit and decided to buy an XD9. I've tried and tried to talk him out of getting a compensated gun. He bought an XD9 compensated. We shot it last night, even from retention. He is pleased.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

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