When a guest, family, firearms, and touching a gun w/o permission

When a guest, family, firearms, and touching a gun w/o permission

This is a discussion on When a guest, family, firearms, and touching a gun w/o permission within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Should have been, "Dealing with firearm issues: guest, family, & touching a gun w/o permission." I'm 35. My mother is 69. My mother is a ...

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Thread: When a guest, family, firearms, and touching a gun w/o permission

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    When a guest, family, firearms, and touching a gun w/o permission

    Should have been, "Dealing with firearm issues: guest, family, & touching a gun w/o permission."

    I'm 35. My mother is 69.

    My mother is a hunter. She dislikes handguns (though she has owned one and keep it loaded for years).

    I own my own house and I am married. I love my parents, and live three streets away from my parents (and four for from my brother). We are a close family, we all live around 3 miles from each other.

    A few weeks ago, I was up at the family farm (parent's retirement home). Not the Kennedy compound, but 50+ acres of woods attached to several other relatives with land and farm.

    I had shot several rounds (750+) and wanted to clean my guns. I waited till almost everyone was asleep and began to prep for cleaning.

    Earlier in the day my mother began to lecture me on CC with one in the barrel or chamber. She felt strongly this was an unsafe method. I listened, but would not argue other then one statement, "A firearm should be treated as if it is load. For this reason, and because of SD reasons, my carry would be armed and ready."

    So as I began to clean she took it upon herself to strike up the one side conversation again. As it was two AM, I started to pack up my firearms. It was crazy enough to clean at two AM, but I would rather deal with cleaning when I got home then during an argument.

    I had everything about packed up, when she figured out I was not going to argue, and was prepping to put everything (but my carry) in the trunk of my car.

    On the table I had my Glock, pointed toward an outside wall, unloaded. I begin to load a mag, and she sat down in front of the barrel of my gun. She grabbed my gun and moved it.

    I told her to never touch a firearm I was working with unless I provided permission. She told me it was her house and she would do what ever she wanted. She "knew" more about fire arm safety then I did. In addition I was not allowed to have a loaded firearm in her house.

    Understand, my mother has a .22 LR revolver loaded in this house (a stupid SD caliber I know, but at 69 it is what she felt she was comfortable with) along with a loaded double barrel shotgun.

    I put the unloaded Glock (no mag) in my IWB holster. Put the loaded mag in my pocket, put the guns away. I stated my wife and I would be leaving for home shortly. That I felt that a firearm should always be considered loaded and it was improper for her to touch my firearm with out permission. That I would CC a firearm with one in the chamber, and that anytime she observes one of the firearms I own she should assume it is loaded, ready to fire, esp if it was in a holster.

    She told me not to threaten leaving, I told her it was no threat. That the hypocrisy of her having loaded weapons (and her demand that I should not) combined with her lack or respect for my firearms, was a deal breaker.

    She unhappily relented and said I could have a loaded piece, that she felt I was disrespectful, but would not make any demands concerning a firearm I had holstered and was in possession of.

    She had me on the disrespect part, but let me make this clear, she made it about being in her home, but the real issue is that she believe no one should carry with a round in the chamber. She even stated that police don't carry with one in the barrel (ya right!). She is living with memories of one bullet Deputy Barney I think.

    My mother is wonderful, giving, intelligent, people smart, and street wise (maybe not about firearms, but she has gotten herself out of a lot of jams). She is also my mother, and feels the need to not let an issue go if she feels strongly about it (esp it concerns her authority).

    So, this is still an issue between my Mother and I. The bull in the room. Any thoughts. Don't hold back (nor will I)


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Jackle1886's Avatar
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    I think you handled it quite well. You were ready to just leave and defuse the situation. What she wants under her roof is one thing, but to force her opinions on everyone else is just wrong. And to be in direct violation of "her opinions" just proves how much hypocrisy this really is. She raised you, and knows that you are safe with your firearms, and should respect your decisions.
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    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    It's a touchy situation, but I believe in this case, you have the final authority, regardless of where the gun is. Only you know for sure its current condition, and I would politely, but firmly, have instructed (maybe before she touched), please not to touch the firearms until done cleaning.

    Ultimately, you are the one responsible for your firearms. I think you did the right thing, and I'm willing to bet most people on this forum will agree.

    Maybe print out the responses and show it to her?
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    Dude, that is a very touchy subject. First off, if she does truly know more about firearm safety than you then there is no way she should have sat in front of your Glock and grabbed it as you prepared to load it.

    I'm thinking future trips to Mom and Dad's should not include any rifles and keep the CC in the holster or a COM safe in your car. You don't want to mess with Momma!

    Good luck with this one in the future.
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    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paco View Post
    You don't want to mess with Momma!

    +1 This is so true. Remember, if momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
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    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Interesting read. She sounds like my mother. She won't come out and say it but she believes I am paranoid and constantly worries that the gun will 'go off'.

    I won't comment on the idea of disrespect. That's a concept that is incredibly subjective to each persons relationship with another. Keep in mind that some people consider arguing with their parents to be respectful because it proves to their parents that they are old enough to be right and be confident in their opinions. Other people believe that blind compliance with their parents wishes is respectful. That is something you will have to deal with on your own.

    On the topic of safety? Absolutely. Though I probably would not even leave a gun around if my mom was about. She thinks she knows about gun safety but I wouldnt trust her to keep a loaded shotgun. As well, my mother believes that if she has a gun, she could shoot the wrong person in a dark house. To me, the argument ends there because I'll respect that fear. But what I'm getting at is this: You know your mother. She knows you pretty well too. Be insistent about your guns. I think one of the most pervasive fears on this board is shooting a family member (if not having to shoot - period). Its not irrational but sometimes people are. They may not know it but they are being cavalier with theirs and others lives when you touch strange firearms without permission (at least when dealing in the day-to-day interactions we normally have).
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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixBravo View Post
    ...I won't comment on the idea of disrespect. That's a concept that is incredibly subjective to each persons relationship with another....
    I have even gone the route of letting her know when I disagree it is a sign of respect and demonstrates I value her council. I think this is why she was so irritated at me. I never shared with her that when I carry (that being all the time now) I carry with one in the chamber.

    There is one other issue my mother and I disagree about strongly. If you would hear us talk about it you would think we agree. It confuses people how we disagree. There is a "fact" that leads us to different conclusions. I let her know I never wanted to discuss this issue again in detail (as it is always a heated argument). I told her it was a sign of respect that I would not lie or hide my thoughts.

    So now new issue of disagreement, firearms. I have chosen to carry, but not share with her how I carry. She knows I know she would not approve. This is the disrespect she is refering to. I just don't care to consider her opinion and will not share with her my opinion beyond a statement.

  8. #8
    Member Array usmcj's Avatar
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    switch feet with the "shoes"......

    In YOUR house, would you relinquish control to another person ?

    I wouldn't. I'm on your mom's side. In my house, firearms related issues go by my rules, or they just go.
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    I'm not sure why it's a huge deal that she touched your gun.

    I'm thinking of this from your same situation.

    My husband and I often take our guns home to my families' house where we go shooting and have fun. We then come in and clean guns.

    There are guns all over the place and father/brother/cousin/mother/sister/you-name-it is welcome to pick up our guns provided it is well established they know what they are doing (and they all do).

    Further more, we have a rule. If it's sitting on the table slides are locked back, chambers are empty and facing up, magazines are usually out. We see this as being polite. That way anyone who wants to approach the table can see that the firearm is empty without having to pick it up.

    If the chamber is closed or the gun is loaded it is off the table in a holster or locked up where everyone knows not to play with it.

    But, I would say, while in Rome.. so to speak.

    If we were at my father's house (or my mother's as the case may be) and he expressed that he did not want a loaded gun in the home we would happily oblige (though he would never have such a rule). It is his home (or her's in this case) and he (she) has every right to make the rules.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    If I was visiting my mom and knew that she didn't like handguns that much and didn't want me to have loaded guns in her house, I would not be cleaning them in her kitchen even at 2 am.

    Her sitting in front of the barrel and moving it out of the way is not a problem in my book as long as she didn't move it with her finger on the trigger.

    It is her house, and she can do whatever she chooses in it. Whether or not your willing to let her or give her cause to touch your guns is really up to you. The gun was on her table, and as long as she wasn't doing something unsafe with it I don't see any reason to scold your mom. There are better ways or phrases to use to get the point across.

    Personally, I don't see any point in getting into a ******* contest with ones mother about having loaded guns, or concealed carry in her house. Some things are just not worth it. I am not saying that good discussion is a bad thing, but you can discuss a lot of things, religion, politics, social issues etc, without bringing them into her kitchen. Laying and cleaning a gun on her kitchen table is a far cry from discussion.

    Packing ones family up at 2am and leaving to make a point is not a good policy either. You only have one mom, they don't make new ones, and at 69 years young you don't know how much longer she will be around.

    Good luck with this one.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post

    In addition I was not allowed to have a loaded firearm in her house.

    Any thoughts. Don't hold back
    1) I'd say "Thanks Mom", pack up, and leave. If she wanted to see me, or her grandchildren, after that, she could visit me at my house.

    2) Since I happen to own the house my own mother lives in, I'd ask her where she was planning on moving now, since nobody tells me what to do on my own land. :-)

    3) (on edit) And I'd tell her she could take up her interesting theories on the best way to carry a firearm with Col. Cooper, when next she should meet him. :-)

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
    ...In YOUR house, would you relinquish control to another person ?...
    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    If I was visiting my mom and knew that she didn't like handguns that much and didn't want me to have loaded guns in her house,....
    I hear ya, but she does not have an issue with me having a loaded weapon. Her problem is that I would take a loaded weapon outside the home. Her initial demand was a punishment because I will not follow her direction outside her home (I'm 35 years old, married, and do not live with her).

    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    ... I would not be cleaning them in her kitchen even at 2 am....
    Something I had done in the past, asking permission, with out objection. It was in a corner of the house where I could be alone. She is a hunter and big into keeping firearms clean.

    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    ... front of the barrel and moving it out of the way is not a problem in my book as long as she didn't move it with her finger on the trigger.....
    It is that aggressive nature of what she was doing. It was a shove, not a careful reposition. I should also add how nervous she is around semi-auto pistols (as opposed to revolvers). In reality she is less anti-pistol and more anti-Glock.

    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    ...I don't see any reason to scold your mom. There are better ways or phrases to use to get the point across...69 years young you don't know how much longer she will be around....
    Unfortunately I don't think there is any way I could ever get my point across. But you have me on the rest. She has always been good to me. I think you hit the reason for the post. If I were to be blunt, she is just to old to change, and considering her age (did I mention how much of an ass I am for confronting my 69 year old mother with cancer).

    Now, with that said, its a mild cancer (doctor said she is more likely to die of something else, but if she lives 10 years, the cancer might get her). No treatments or anything but 6 month check ups.

    But good point farronwolf, & thanks...it is obvious how controlling she is, but it is also pointless to worry about it.

    IDK, do I just lie to her and tell her I don't carry with one in the chamber? This is the part I get confused on.

    Thinking it over, has nothing to do with firearm safety. It is about how to cope with the demands of a 69 year old mother with cancer who wants to control her 35 year old son's CC method.

  13. #13
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    It's all about communication. She obviously doesn't understand some things and its on you to bring her up to speed. She is your mother, and doesn't have long here on earth.

    Sit down and tell her why you feel the way you do. Out of respect, leave the guns in the car, no sense in complicating the situation. Attempt to educate her as to why you carry, why you carry the way you do, and what ever else she may ask. Take your time, be polite, and above all be respectful. Understand that if she doesn't see it your way, it is still her house and be respectful of that. If she doesn't want loaded guns in the house, thats just the way it will be.

    Trying to make an issue out of something that she doesn't agree with isn't going to solve anything.

    Life is too short to sweat the small stuff. She is your mother and even if she lives to be 100, you will always be her child.
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    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Agreed, Lima. However I think I understood the OP to mean that his mother did not have a very good grasp of gun safety if she is sitting down in front of guns he is handling and ones he is about to load. What you're saying about family 100% applies and I completely sympathize in regards to my friends. We will frequently have guns laying around after a shoot. Slides locked back, etc. I can't do that with my mother as he apparently has not discussed it with her in his own way. Complicated situation, to be sure. I don't think anyone here cares less about gun safety than anyone else, but I think it comes from different schools of thought.
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  15. #15
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    I would always ASK to see someone's elses firearm...I would expect the same courtesy.

    Stay armed...be safe, be polite...stay safe!
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