"Tookie" not a day too soon

This is a discussion on "Tookie" not a day too soon within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I won't shed any tears. I also don't think killing him served any positive purpose either other than to save a few bucks....

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Thread: "Tookie" not a day too soon

  1. #16
    New Member Array MaterDei's Avatar
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    I won't shed any tears. I also don't think killing him served any positive purpose either other than to save a few bucks.

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  3. #17
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    Wink Just Let Me Say This

    If it was on TV...of course I wouldn't watch it...unless my TV just happened to already be on that channel & I couldn't find the remote.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  4. #18
    Member Array Kentucky's Avatar
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    I don't believe in the death penalty,... not because of some sort of 'religious' reason or such but because the perp. gets to live a relative long time after his crime, with color tv, 3 squares, library, gym , conjugal visits etc. privileges and when he is put to death, it is basically 'going to sleep' without pain or suffering. I think our 'cruel and unusual punishment' laws need to be rescinded when it comes to a murderer and he should be remanded to a lifetime of a bare cell, no extra curricular events, 3 meals/day consisting of barely life sustaining ingredients, and 16 hours /day of the most difficult and backbreaking dirty labor that could be found on this planet . Period period period !!!
    diplomacy ... the art of saying "nice doggie"..while looking for a big rock !!

  5. #19
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    But KY - in this ''civilized'' society we now have - that wouldn't wash. There would be uproar at ''prisoner abuse'' - if he was deprived of all modern comforts!!

    I do tend to agree in principle - the ''payment'' for the ultimate crime should be productive of suffering - in some cases and considering the nature of some heinous crimes - a regime that gives them ''living hell''.

    But it won't happen. It wouldn't be ''fair'' - their ''rights'' would not be being followed, despite the fact that IMO those ''rights'' are relinquished by virtue of the crime.

    I will admit that in severe cases I do wish to see retribution, harsh retribution. I have a black side when it comes to bad folk's paying their dues.
    Chris - P95
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  6. #20
    Member Array Kompact9's Avatar
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    Once convicted and appealed, with appeals unsuccessful, I give my version of what should have happened to Tookie. See the following of "Old Sparky" that we used to use here in Texas before the bleeding hearts came along:

    http://homepage.mac.com/jimwillett/T...toAlbum16.html

    If this is too inhumane, then beheading might be the answer...
    noli nothis permittere te terere...

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    Tookie got what Tookie deserved, only years too late. Execution is most definitely a deterrent. Not one person that has been executed has committed another crime after their execution. That's good enough for me. The Hollywood elitists that cried on his behalf make me sick. This rabid animal needed to be put down years ago. How about the Hollywood elitists donating money to the victims family's to defray the years of expense they have had to forfit while waiting to see that justice was done. Don't think we will ever see that ever happen.
    Last edited by havegunjoe; December 22nd, 2005 at 01:58 PM.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    Well, I guess that's the way the Tookie crumbles....


    Working in the medical field, I celebrate anytime a tumor is excised.
    "Rehabilitated? Anyone know why the Took' was kept in San Quentin, and not Marion, Il? Larry Hoover has residence in Marion......

  9. #23
    Member Array soflasmg's Avatar
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    That was one dookie that needed flushing.
    The Marshmallowist

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array Hivoltage's Avatar
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    I'm with Kentucky!!!

    Just laying down and going to sleep from an injection is way too kind in my opinion, almost a favor. Let them work their butts off for life or throw them all in 1 huge cell and let them beat the crap out of each other until only 1 is left.

    Heck, my Mom would have paid money to been put to sleep with an injection, she suffered for years before death and was ready to go. Why should a cold blooded murderer deserve such a kind and gentle death.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    I have never applauded the death of no one regardless of the situation. I would go even further and say that if I had to pull the trigger it would be devestating to me because someone failed to respect not only themselves but those that loved them and were left behind. I will admit that if you do the crime you have to face the consequences. I feel that the man deserved the punishment he got and hopefully his writings will continue to help change and inspire kids to do well.

    I work as a professional counselor for teens that suffer from behavioral issues in the school system and some are violent. It is my job to help them gain control of their problems and hopefully not end up as this man did. In the end we saw the potential that he had, but along the way someone failed him as a child and he met demise by the excutioner.

    In short, regardless of the man's faults in life he worked hard to make a difference and in the end he acted as a man and took responsibility for his negative actions. I would suggest that no parties are thrown for anyone who dies in this manner because it just proves that we as warriors, parents, teachers and American Citizens have a long way to go if we are to raise and educate the true warriors of the future. "Train up a child as he should go and may he not depart from your ways"
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

  12. #26
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    Just for the official forum record

    This guy never admitted to his four murders...even though the evidence against him was powerful.
    He never showed any remorse...and was never willing to cooperate with Law Enforcement to help catch other gang members or solve any gang related crimes or murders.
    He was the worst inmate in that prison system & had his gang members constantly threaten the lives of the guards families.
    I honestly doubt that he wrote any "Childrens Books" himself.
    One of his four victims was a young soldier with a wife & two little kids who obeyed completely during a store robbery & was laying on his stomach...on the floor...with his hands locked over his head when "tookie" blew his brains out with a shotgun to the back of his head...just for the Hell of it. There was not a whole lot of "good" in this guy.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  13. #27
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    Quote BlueLion: "In short, regardless of the man's faults in life he worked hard to make a difference and in the end he acted as a man and took responsibility for his negative actions."

    I agree with your thoughts and intentions except for the above..where and how did he 'act as a man' and 'take responsibility'... He never . even on his death bed , admitted to his crimes, apologized to the victims families or professed any sorrow . Yes he wrote some books that may be of value to some of the young people, but if he was so interested in the welfare of others , he could have shown the kids how to admit their mistakes and TRULY act like a man.
    And while I'm on the 'pulpit' , I doubt very if I'll ever watch another film starring Jamie Fox. He was shown on TV with his arm around the guy and calling him 'my brother'...Another friend of his who witnessed the execution was seen giving him the Black Panther fist up salute as he was being injected !!! It should have been air bubbles that were injected !! Sorry !!
    diplomacy ... the art of saying "nice doggie"..while looking for a big rock !!

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    Cool

    Actually, the guy not only wrote childrens books and has publicy apologized for his actions when he was young, but was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. Furthermore, he was very instrumental in stopping the gang wars that were going on in California and spoke to both groups via satellite. The mistakes we make as people are not easy to fix once they are done. All we can do is apologize for the transgression and try as hard as we can to change our ways. I am sure as he lay on that cold table he felt remorse for what he did.However, what could he do at that point, pay day had arrived.

    We can continue to be angry and resentful and hate our eneimies as we slowly die inside from anger and unforgiveness or we can chose to move past the situation. Thus, the grief process and how much a person is affected by a situation or experience is different for us all, and as a professional counselor I will tell you that some people never fully get over any traumatic loss or experience. Furthemore, I can't say how those families feel, I can only imagine. However, during my time in the military I have seen and done some things that has caused me to have to attend several counseling sessions at my local VA Medical Center in efforts to help me deal with the issues. So, I guess I have a different world view and position than most people.

    In closing justice is done and I don't think digging his body up and squeezing off a full clip will help the situation because when the smoke clears, you still suffer.
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLion
    Actually, the guy not only wrote childrens books and has publicy apologized for his actions when he was young, but was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. Furthermore, he was very instrumental in stopping the gang wars that were going on in California and spoke to both groups via satellite.
    That's because he was still head of the Crips. His status in San Quentin was boosted, both with Administration, and the homies (he clearly demonstrated his power).

    His nomination was for the Nobel Prize in Literature(not "Peace", as is commonly proclaimed). As far as his "literature", his books sold a total of 334 copies. Total. That would mean that (if "he saved 150,000 from gangs'), each book was shared by 449.2 children. Have his books been mandatory for group reading at "Encounter Sessions"?

    BL, I know where you're coming from, and I respect your opinion, but don't ever be confused: in the minds of these guys, your home, your woman, your money, your life, belongs to them. Period. They can take any of the mentioned, any time, in any city in this country.

  16. #30
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    Convicted murderer Stanley "Tookie" Williams, the co-founder of the violent Crips gang who is on Death Row in California, is Hollyweird's current cause celebre. He is scheduled to be executed on Dec. 13 after 24 years of legal wrangling. The San Francisco Chronicle reports today that Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has decided to hold a clemency hearing Dec. 8.

    Among the Save Tookie brigades: Snoop Dogg, Bianca Jagger, Jesse Jackson, Margaret Cho, Mike Farrell, Jason Alexander, Laurence Fishburne, Danny Glover, Anjelica Huston, Bonnie Raitt, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, and Noah Wyle.

    I wrote about Williams' bleeding-heart worshipers back in 2000, when he was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize:
    San Quentin prison officials report that juvenile delinquents idolize Williams. His propaganda has been endorsed by the Congressional Black Caucus. As part of an ongoing public relations campaign to soften his image while he ties up the courts with specious legal appeals, Williams has been profiled sympathetically by People magazine, Time, the Los Angeles Times, and the ethnic press.
    He even appeared on a TV special introduced by President Clinton.

    Barbara Becnel, a crusading journalist who "edits" Williams' writings, once gushed that if the death-row inmate had "been raised in Brentwood instead of South Central, he'd be head of the state Democratic party."

    Williams' groupies would have us believe that their Nobel Peace Prize nominee is a helpless victim of his environment, addled by low self-esteem, forced to turn to violence by racist oppressors, and now apologetic "for the atrocities which I and others committed against our race through gang violence."
    Spare us the sob story.
    Here are the cold-blooded facts missing from Williams' Nobel Peace Prize application:
    Williams was convicted of murdering four innocent bystanders with a sawed-off shotgun in 1979. There was nothing peaceful or compassionate about the way [Albert Owens], Thsai-Shai Yang, Yen-I Yang and Yee Chen Lin died. Owen[s] was a white teen-age clerk at a 7-11 convenience store, shot twice in the back of the head -- execution-style -- as he lay unarmed on the floor during a hold-up. A witness testified that Williams mocked the gurgling sounds Owen[s] made as he lay dying. "You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him," the witness quoted Williams.
    The Yangs were Taiwanese immigrants who, along with their daughter Yee Chen Lin, were gunned down during a motel robbery two weeks after Owen[s] died. Half of the daughter's face was blown off by the shotgun blasts, former L.A. County Deputy District Attorney Robert Martin told me in an interview this week. Williams called them "Buddhaheads," Martin recounted, and robbed them of petty cash.
    Williams has yet to apologize to the victims' families.
    When the trial ended, Martin told me, Williams muttered to the prosecution team, "I'll get every one of you m-----f-----s."
    Spoken like a Nobel laureate.

    Tookie Williams was sentenced to die for these brutal crimes in 1981. But at the end of this year, he will have celebrated 19 more Thanksgivings, 19 more Christmases, and 19 more birthdays. That's 6,935 days more than [Albert Owens], Thsai-Shai Yang, Yen-I Yang and Yee Chen Lin were allowed to enjoy on this earth...

    My name is Lora Owens. I am the stepmother of Albert Lewis Owens. My husband, Albert's father, has died so I also speak for him since we discussed this letter frequently over the years. I am writing you concerning clemency for Stanley "Tookie" Williams who murdered Albert in 1979 by shooting him twice in the back. Within seconds, though Albert pleaded for his life, Williams chose to become the judge, jury and executioner of Albert, then laughed as he lay dying.
    In 1981, Williams was tried, convicted and sentenced to death for the murders he committed in cold blood. Now the many, many years of appeals have also been denied and the facts remain steadfast and the verdict remains firm.

    Now that the appeals have been denied, Williams has decided on a new tactic.
    A female friend has entered his life who happens to be a journalist who wants to write children's books against gangs. Since the defense of brain damage in his appeals did not gain him anything, Williams decided to become an articulate author denouncing gang activity.
    He doesn't assist the authorities in stopping gang activity by "debriefing" however, but concentrates on teaching primary school age children the "walk and talk" of gang life.
    This he claims will deter them from joining a gang.

    The Nobel Peace Prize nominations, from the first to the last, have been made by activists who see an opportunity to further their personal cause.
    The first was quoted to have made the nomination to "raise the awareness of the death penalty to a higher degree". Totally nothing to do with Williams and whether he deserved the recognition but for a political agenda.

    This has been true of each nomination since.

    They have quoted that it doesn't matter what he has done in the past but what he is doing now.
    I contend that he is not doing anything now to warrant any type of award and it definitely does matter what he has done in the past.
    It would matter to anyone whose child is dying in a pool of blood because Williams had the loaded gun and chose to shoot- not in self defense-but shot innocent, unarmed victims simply bcause he could.

    The whole "redemption" line is a joke. As Williams' former prosecutor Robert Martin once told me, redemption requires an admission of guilt, facing up to what you did and expressing remorse.
    Williams has done none of the above, yet newspaper editorial pages (including The Chronicle's) and various do-gooders (including some Ninth U.S. Court of Appeals judges) have been pushing for the governor to grant Tookie clemency. That would turn the whole concept of clemency on its ear.

    Let me stipulate: While I support the death penalty, I can respect those who oppose it. But I can't respect those who lionize the most violent thugs as if they are prize sages.
    My advice to the anti-execution crowd -- and I have no doubt it will be ignored -- is to find some poor schlub who killed in a panic and doesn't belong on death row, and seek clemency for that person.
    Don't put a cold-blooded killer on a pedestal.
    Don't denounce a government killing as barbaric while you laud a cold-blooded thug.
    And don't ask for clemency for a killer who won't fess up to his crimes.
    Williams' co-author, Barbara Becnel, told the Los Angeles Times, "What Stan presents is hope that they, too, can change.
    He is worth far more to society alive than dead."
    Wrong.
    He is worth more to society dead.
    The message from the Tookie-philes is that you can kill innocent people and be a star.
    An execution says you can kill innocent people and pay the price.

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