Could I be in big trouble?

This is a discussion on Could I be in big trouble? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by MP45CDE Doh--I forgot about being guilty until proven innocent! If that day ever comes, there won't be any laws to protect us ...

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Thread: Could I be in big trouble?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP45CDE View Post
    Doh--I forgot about being guilty until proven innocent! If that day ever comes, there won't be any laws to protect us anymore.
    The point was: the law that'll ultimately clear everything up is often decidedly different than what the "authority" believes it to be at the time of the infraction. Resist, if you believe differently, then you'll see the simple truth of this. In this sense, you may well be guilty (hauled away cause he/they didn't like your "story") ... until you prove yourself innocent. There's nothing dark and secretive about this; it's just the way things work.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; October 8th, 2008 at 07:33 PM. Reason: grammar
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    The OP isn't talking about a gun he 'sold' later being used in a crime.

    He is talking about a gun that is 'registered' to him, 'not' being in his possession anymore when the gun grabbers are raiding door to door(i.e. owning the gun becomes a crime).

    And I say again, when that happens, there won't be due process.
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  4. #18
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    The OP isn't talking about a gun he 'sold' later being used in a crime.

    He is talking about a gun that is 'registered' to him, 'not' being in his possession anymore when the gun grabbers are raiding door to door(i.e. owning the gun becomes a crime).

    And I say again, when that happens, there won't be due process.
    When the gun grabbers start going door to door grabbiing guns I am afraid that whether or not we have the guns that the records show we have are going to be the least of our worries. When the nazis started rounding up the Jews it really didn't matter what legal records they had. As you say due process won't exist. As much as some want to predict Obama will not be signing an executive order on his first day to confiscate all guns.
    Last edited by FN1910; October 8th, 2008 at 07:17 PM.

  5. #19
    Member Array Rusty Bouquett's Avatar
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  6. #20
    Member Array svinfinity45's Avatar
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    Id rather have paperwork just to cover my a$$, in any of the situations described above. Either for defense in an investigation involving one of the sold weapons, to some German SS or Katrina happening where all of our guns get confiscated (see "Papers, please" :( ).


    I KNOW it's none of my business, but why would you want to go record-free in the first place. Are you just asking about a certain scenario to get our input or are you actually planning on doing this? To me I would never do that because to LEO or similar it would sound/look suspicious to have no paper trail or at least some record or legit bill of sale, at least in this situation where your the seller and your weapons could be used for anything after they are out of your possession. It's a different story to me if your BUYING the weapon, they shouldn't want records of buyers/owners.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by svinfinity45 View Post
    Id rather have paperwork just to cover my a$$, in any of the situations described above. Either for defense in an investigation involving one of the sold weapons, to some German SS or Katrina happening where all of our guns get confiscated (see "Papers, please" :( ).


    I KNOW it's none of my business, but why would you want to go record-free in the first place. Are you just asking about a certain scenario to get our input or are you actually planning on doing this? To me I would never do that because to LEO or similar it would sound/look suspicious to have no paper trail or at least some record or legit bill of sale, at least in this situation where your the seller and your weapons could be used for anything after they are out of your possession. It's a different story to me if your BUYING the weapon, they shouldn't want records of buyers/owners.
    Im confused as to why you think it should be different if the OP was buying a weapon versus selling the weapon.Why wouldn't the seller want the same protection from any future possible prosecution in selling his or her weapon as the OP? Just curious.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    I may be wrong in my assumption, but only when you buy a gun through a licensed FFL dealer do you fill out required paperwork (Form 4473) for the feds. As per federal law (state requirements vary so check your own) private sales of guns require no paperwork or record. Only a FFL dealer is required to maintain any paperwork and nothing is sent to any government office, so the BATF would need to review EVERY FFL's records, in person, to see who's purchased weapons and when it was done. It's always possible, but consider how many guns have been sold over the years... 10's of millions. That's a lot of paper to review and what about legacy guns passed down from one person to another, guns given and/or received as gifts or guns acquired before the requirements (1968 I think) took effect? Also, how many gun owners have died, moved or simply disposed of a gun that no longer worked? And how will anyone prove different if you were to say you dropped a gun in a river while hunting/fishing or it was stolen during a burglary or robbery?

    I keep the bill's of sale for all my guns. It's for proof of ownership in case they are destroyed, lost or stolen and I want to file a report with the police and/or insurance company, not for fear of the police and the need to prove to the "authorities" my guns do (or don't) belong to me. Agree or not but personally, me'thinks most of you worry too much - as if there aren't enough real problems to deal with these days - and this is all much ado about nothing.
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  9. #23
    Member Array IfIhaveto's Avatar
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    I would insist...

    Quote Originally Posted by MP45CDE View Post
    Other than the fact that I'm posting the question itself , my question for your contemplation is this:

    If I were to go to the next gun show here in Missouri and sell all my weapons to Bubba Smith out in the parking lot, and NOT get any sort of receipt or anything (which I am told is perfectly legal, at least here in Missouri), if the gun natzis ever knocked on my door to take my weapons, just exactly what kind of trouble would I be in if I told the truth that I had sold 'em all to some guy outside the gun show last fall and I didn't get his name?

    I would insist on getting a receipt w/serial numbers listed...it's your freedom you’re betting on...

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP45CDE View Post
    OK--let's get back on track. It's legal, already! (to sell privately)

    Are they going to buy my cockamamie story?! What could they really do??

    They could do nothing OR anything they want. If "Gun-Grabbers" are at your door to 'remove' firearms from your posession, then there MUCH bigger problems going on!

    I'd figure it'd be high time to get me and mine to a "free state" right now!
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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  11. #25
    Ex Member Array MP45CDE's Avatar
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    Due to the responses in this thread, I am surprised by the very good charactor of those in this forum and encouraged overall because I think that this eCommunity reflects the overall charactor of 2A believers as a whole. Unfortunately, law-abiding integrity like that shown in this thread may be what winds up allowing dishonest folks to do away with the 2A right under our noses...which is not to say that I advocate dishonesty or breaking the law--because I don't.

    Am I correct that the concensus is that, if we were ever in the situation where we would have to give up our weapons, if we didn't give them up we'd be in the same impossible situation as if we hid them and said that we had sold them to some guy in the parking lot at the gun show? Either way we have no rights and our decision would be between whether we would live in a country governed by a government too powerful to live free within safely, or whether we would fight--literally fight--against it and be abused by it to the point of imprisonment or death.

    What would you do, really. The answer you give to this question here in cyberspace, where it's easy to be brave and bold, may not really be the route you choose. What about your family? Would you make them sacrifice more than they had already lost through the transformation of our great country from freedom to opression and leave them alone to fend for themselves?

    What can they really do? Anything they want. The worse part about this whole realistic scenario is that its coming and we're just complacent enough to be too busy to vote.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    For the second part of your question, you can look here
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...hands-not.html

    It its a very long thread, and there is still no consensus.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  13. #27
    Ex Member Array MP45CDE's Avatar
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    Wow. Now that's a thread.

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