Could I be in big trouble?

This is a discussion on Could I be in big trouble? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Other than the fact that I'm posting the question itself , my question for your contemplation is this: If I were to go to the ...

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Thread: Could I be in big trouble?

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    Ex Member Array MP45CDE's Avatar
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    Could I be in big trouble?

    Other than the fact that I'm posting the question itself , my question for your contemplation is this:

    If I were to go to the next gun show here in Missouri and sell all my weapons to Bubba Smith out in the parking lot, and NOT get any sort of receipt or anything (which I am told is perfectly legal, at least here in Missouri), if the gun natzis ever knocked on my door to take my weapons, just exactly what kind of trouble would I be in if I told the truth that I had sold 'em all to some guy outside the gun show last fall and I didn't get his name?


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    JD
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    ...which I am told is perfectly legal, at least here in Missouri
    Never rely on "what I was told" find the sections in MO law that deal with the sale of firearms from non-dealers to individuals.

    Edited to add: Missouri Revised Statutes, Chapter 571, Weapons Offenses, : Unlawful transfer of weapons, penalty.
    Last edited by JD; October 8th, 2008 at 11:52 AM. Reason: Added links to MO law...

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    How respectful would the next dozen "confiscation Nazis" be, do you think, if that were your story?

    I don't know Missouri's laws that control what you're able to do with a purchase/sale. What are the exact statutes and what do they say on the matter? Check 571.060 and 571.070.

    But paperless means one thing: you have little to counter a claim made against you that you were involved in a crime, that you've still got a wanted gun, that ... No way around that, other than being right. Me, I'd prefer a bit more to hang on, than simply being right. But that's just me.

    Here in Oregon, there's no real paperwork requirement. Transactions can be face-to-face and paperless. The state does maintain a phone number where you can do a quickie insta-check on someone and on a firearm, but it's only available if you want to use it. For myself, if I'm letting go some equipment, I make sure I document the concept. Doesn't mean the state needs to know outright (at time of sale), but it can help protect me against some future crime done with that gun by someone else. I, too, am wary of just how little regard for basic rights and rule of law someone might have, in future.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP45CDE View Post
    Other than the fact that I'm posting the question itself , my question for your contemplation is this:

    If I were to go to the next gun show here in Missouri and sell all my weapons to Bubba Smith out in the parking lot, and NOT get any sort of receipt or anything (which I am told is perfectly legal, at least here in Missouri), if the gun natzis ever knocked on my door to take my weapons, just exactly what kind of trouble would I be in if I told the truth that I had sold 'em all to some guy outside the gun show last fall and I didn't get his name?

    What could they do? Ask you to claim the income on your taxes? Bring in a sketch artist maybe? How about you just posting them here on the forum in the member B/S/T?

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    Member Array G96X0's Avatar
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    I sold a colt chief special to a guy (private sale). No paperwork, nothing. My regular gun dealer set it up, and the transaction occurred at our home. There are tons of private sales all the time. I'm always checking the classifieds in our local paper for deals.

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    Member Array raytracer's Avatar
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    MP45CDE, as JD's link illustrates, there is no specific paperwork required by Missouri or the BATFE. Most people, myself included, consider a boiler plate bill of sale to be essential for covering your butt in case the buyer does something stupid with the weapon - and it also protects the buyer in case you just strafed you mother in law's house with it the week before.

    At the minimum, I would include on the BOS both parties name, address, phone number and Driver's License/State ID number. This shows due diligence in making sure you were selling to a resident of the same state.

    If you have any concerns as to their eligibility vis-a-vis a criminal record etc., you could insist on a CCW as a condition of sale. As good as a NICS check for private transactions.

    Now, that's all well and good for right now.

    If Obama's blue helmets show up next year on confiscation patrol, having disposition records of all your guns is the least of your worries.

    Joe

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    Ex Member Array MP45CDE's Avatar
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    OK--let's get back on track. It's legal, already! (to sell privately)

    Are they going to buy my cockamamie story?! What could they really do??

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    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP45CDE View Post
    OK--let's get back on track. It's legal, already! (to sell privately)

    Are they going to buy my cockamamie story?! What could they really do??
    Hummmm...civil suits are alive and well. Lawyer to fend off the dawgs...what could they do?...make your life miserable.

    Rick

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP45CDE View Post
    Are they going to buy my cockamamie story?! What could they really do??
    Cockamamie? Prove it's otherwise. Guilty if claims are leveled, remember, unless you can prove yourself innocent. Go from there, in terms of what you'd need to withstand unfounded claims. Think it through.

    Paperwork can help. Better still, if the person is who you claim. Better yet, if that person can actually be contacted (ie, via a driver's license or CHL). Reality is, though, you can be in as much doo-doo as the claimant desires you to be, 'cause he's got the power to make it rough on you. Welcome to reality.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    In Mi there is always a paper trail, one that we need to get rid of, called registration (for hand guns) Long guns are a different story, other than the place you bought it from there is no record.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Back to your topic...no, they probably would not buy your story without any paperwork. They would most likely destroy your house looking for it. If you need a field tilled, you could have somebody drop an anonymous note that they are buried in your back 40.

    You could at least let the gov't do the digging for you.

    As far as getting in trouble, in your situation, you seem to be talking about an outright ban on firearms and a door to door search of 'registered owners'. Well, if it's gone that far, all bets are off. They could do everything from wink at you and go to the next house, arrest you until you tell them who you sold them to, or tear your house apart looking for them.

    Under the circumstances you are discussing, your rights have already been eliminated. You, and all of us, would be at the mercy of our gov't.

    Resistance would be mid to large scale. Martial law would have already been implemented, and your rights and due process would be a distant memory.

    In other words, your scenario would bring us to the point which caused the Framers to include the 2nd Amendment in the first place.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Put it this way. You sell your Glock 19 to Billy Bob in the parking lot. Three weeks later it turns up in a murder investigation and you fingerprints are found of the magazine or slide where you didn't wipe them off good and ole Billy Bob didn't either. The police show up at your door asking where you were the night Sallie Mae was shot and you were home alone watching Monday Night Football. You better have something saying you sold the gun to Billy Bob.

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    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP45CDE View Post
    OK--let's get back on track. It's legal, already! (to sell privately)
    What could they really do??
    They can and will do whatever they feel like. At some later point the law will come into play. As far as hauling you away, they don't need a law for that.

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    Ex Member Array MP45CDE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Cockamamie? Prove it's otherwise. Guilty if claims are leveled, remember, unless you can prove yourself innocent. Go from there, in terms of what you'd need to withstand unfounded claims. Think it through.
    Doh--I forgot about being guilty until proven innocent! If that day ever comes, there won't be any laws to protect us anymore.

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    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by MP45CDE View Post
    OK--let's get back on track. It's legal, already! (to sell privately)

    Are they going to buy my cockamamie story?! What could they really do??


    I'm going to say what I always say: If you plan on lying to "THEM" it's best not to advertise on the internet, let alone a public forum that you plan on giving a "cockamamie" (this means: Absurd, outlandish, implausible, too crazy to be believed.) story to the Gov or in this case the "gun natzis"

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