Gift of handgun to 18 year old non-relative

[NavyLT]

There is a big argument amongst a couple of FFLs and myself in another thread regarding the following. So I emailed the Seattle Office of the BATF to seek their opinion. Any comments/conjectures in the meantime are welcome to be posted. Heck, we might even get a couple side bets going!

Seattle ATF Division,

I am currently stationed in Iraq. Can you please answer the following question via email, as I am afraid I will not receive your answer in time via US Mail from/to Iraq before Christmas.

My girlfriend's son turned 18 this month. When I return to Washington state in December I would like to give him a handgun for a Christmas/Birthday present. Obviously, neither my girlfriend nor her son are related to me in any way. I am a Washington state resident, am over 21, possess a WA State CPL, and I am eligible to purchase/possess a handgun. My girlfriend's son is also a WA State resident and is eligible to possess a handgun.

Would it be illegal in any way for me to take him to an FFL dealer, explain to the dealer that I am purchasing the handgun with my own money as a gift for him, allow him to pick out the handgun that he would like, I fill out the 4473 with my information as the purchaser, pay for the handgun with my money, walk out of the store and give the handgun to my girlfriend's son as a present. The FFL dealer would, of course, know that I was purchasing this gun as a gift, and if he chose to inquire, would know that the son was 18 years old.

Thank you for your help,

LT John H., US Navy

With the ATF's answer I will also post the Seattle Field Divisions phone number so that the answer to the question may be verified.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[walvord]

If it were me, I'd give him the money for a firearm and let him go purchase one. On the surface, I think the BATF will look at it as a straw purchase - I could be entirely wrong on this though. I just wouldn't do it and eliminate all doubt.

[artz]

Betcha they'll say it is a straw purchase also. You might be able to do that with a used gun, like in Georgia,...but seriously doubt it with a new purchase.

[MP45CDE]

According to Wikipedia, "Under United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is not the "actual purchaser", but is acting as a proxy for another person. Although the term is commonly used to refer to purchasing on behalf of a person who is legally ineligible to purchase or possess a firearm, the law does not make that distinction.

The term does not apply when the firearm is being purchased as a bona fide gift."

Look up "Straw Purchase"

[NavyLT]

If it were me, I'd give him the money for a firearm and let him go purchase one. On the surface, I think the BATF will look at it as a straw purchase - I could be entirely wrong on this though. I just wouldn't do it and eliminate all doubt.

Can't give him the money and let him buy it. He is 18 and can only receive a handgun in a private transaction.

Actually, if he were 21 and were to buy the gun from an FFL with my money, then a straw purchase would occur, because I gave him the money with the express purpose of using it to buy a gun. Therefore, since he was using my money which I gave him to buy a gun with, then it could be construed to be a straw purchase, in a very remote way.

[bandit383]

Can't give him the money and let him buy it. He is 18 and can only receive a handgun in a private transaction.

I wonder how girlfriend feels about this? And why not give the money to her to purchase?

Rick

[NavyLT]

Betcha they'll say it is a straw purchase also. You might be able to do that with a used gun, like in Georgia,...but seriously doubt it with a new purchase.

It is not a straw purchase, because I am, in fact, the actual purchaser of the firearm. I am not purchasing it with someone else's money nor with the intention of receiving someone else's money for it. I am buying with the intention of giving it as a gift, which is not illegal according to 18 USC 922.

[walvord]

If the girlfriend is the mother of the boy, then send her the money and let her purchase the firearm for her son. That might fly. I'd just wait until he is able to purchase his own firearm though. I would not want to have anything look shady in any way with the BATF. If my wife wants a firearm, she buys her own. If I want one, I buy my own - with her permission of course. The kids don't get any firearms until they're of age. Now there might be an implied message that they will receive a particular firearm when they are of age, but not a minute before.

[NavyLT]

According to Wikipedia, "Under United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is not the "actual purchaser", but is acting as a proxy for another person. Although the term is commonly used to refer to purchasing on behalf of a person who is legally ineligible to purchase or possess a firearm, the law does not make that distinction.

The term does not apply when the firearm is being purchased as a bona fide gift."

Look up "Straw Purchase"

Ding, Ding, Ding, WE HAVE A WINNER!

[walvord]

I think on the BATF form that is filled out at purchase, it asks the question as to whether you are buying the firearm for someone else and will you be the owner or something to that affect. If the BATF got jumpy, I just wouldn't want to have to prove in court that it was a bona fide gift especially since the boy is not a relative by blood or marriage. I don't think the form addresses "gifts".

[NavyLT]

I wonder how girlfriend feels about this? And why not give the money to her to purchase?

Rick

Girlfriend loves the idea. I can't give her the money with the express reason for her to buy a gun with, because then she would be buying the gun on my behalf which would be a straw purchase.

[walvord]

Girlfriend loves the idea. I can't give her the money with the express reason for her to buy a gun with, because then she would be buying the gun on my behalf which would be a straw purchase.

I thought you would be buying the firearm for the boy, not yourself.

[NavyLT]

If the girlfriend is the mother of the boy, then send her the money and let her purchase the firearm for her son. That might fly. I'd just wait until he is able to purchase his own firearm though. I would not want to have anything look shady in any way with the BATF. If my wife wants a firearm, she buys her own. If I want one, I buy my own - with her permission of course. The kids don't get any firearms until they're of age. Now there might be an implied message that they will receive a particular firearm when they are of age, but not a minute before.

How about this one: I am Active Duty Navy stationed in Oklahoma. My wife and I maintain Wyoming driver's licenses. I can buy a handgun in Oklahoma by showing my military ID and orders to Oklahoma. My wife cannot. She wants a handgun. We go to the FFL, Brigadoon's in OKC, she picks out the gun she wants, a Taurus Judge revolver, I fill out the paperwork in my name, I pay for the gun with a check with both of our names printed on it, but I sign it, Mark at Brigadoon's doesn't even hand the gun to me, he hands it to her, because he knows it was purchased as a bona fide gift and everything is legal. This is a true story. I also bought her a S&W .460 revolver at Outdoor America in OKC exactly the same way, and a Glock 27 at Ace Hardware in Oak Harbor, WA in exactly the same way. Scott was the guy's name at Ace Hardware. And it's all because of her Wyoming driver's license.

Don't ask about girlfriend and her son, they are actually fictitious, but the topic of the argument was gifts to 18 year olds her aren't relatives, so the wife doesn't work.

[AZ Husker]

18 years old and wants to shoot...
Take him to the nearest Army or Marine recruiter!

[automatic slim]

Actually there is also the issue of state law. In my state, NM, you only have to be 19 to possess a handgun, although if you are under the supervision of a parent or guardian, you can be any age. I'm not sure about OK, but I think in WA
you need to be 21 just to possess under state law.