Gift of handgun to 18 year old non-relative

This is a discussion on Gift of handgun to 18 year old non-relative within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; There is a big argument amongst a couple of FFLs and myself in another thread regarding the following. So I emailed the Seattle Office of ...

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 78

Thread: Gift of handgun to 18 year old non-relative

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array NavyLT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    471

    Gift of handgun to 18 year old non-relative

    There is a big argument amongst a couple of FFLs and myself in another thread regarding the following. So I emailed the Seattle Office of the BATF to seek their opinion. Any comments/conjectures in the meantime are welcome to be posted. Heck, we might even get a couple side bets going!

    Seattle ATF Division,

    I am currently stationed in Iraq. Can you please answer the following question via email, as I am afraid I will not receive your answer in time via US Mail from/to Iraq before Christmas.

    My girlfriend's son turned 18 this month. When I return to Washington state in December I would like to give him a handgun for a Christmas/Birthday present. Obviously, neither my girlfriend nor her son are related to me in any way. I am a Washington state resident, am over 21, possess a WA State CPL, and I am eligible to purchase/possess a handgun. My girlfriend's son is also a WA State resident and is eligible to possess a handgun.

    Would it be illegal in any way for me to take him to an FFL dealer, explain to the dealer that I am purchasing the handgun with my own money as a gift for him, allow him to pick out the handgun that he would like, I fill out the 4473 with my information as the purchaser, pay for the handgun with my money, walk out of the store and give the handgun to my girlfriend's son as a present. The FFL dealer would, of course, know that I was purchasing this gun as a gift, and if he chose to inquire, would know that the son was 18 years old.

    Thank you for your help,

    LT John H., US Navy

    With the ATF's answer I will also post the Seattle Field Divisions phone number so that the answer to the question may be verified.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    St. Charles County Missouri
    Posts
    991
    If it were me, I'd give him the money for a firearm and let him go purchase one. On the surface, I think the BATF will look at it as a straw purchase - I could be entirely wrong on this though. I just wouldn't do it and eliminate all doubt.
    The most exhilarating thing in life is getting shot at with no results.
    - Winston Churchill
    Endowment Life Member - NRA
    Life Member - GOA
    Member - Oath Keepers, SAF, CCRKBA
    U.S. Army (72G) 1975-1980

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array artz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    2,351
    Betcha they'll say it is a straw purchase also. You might be able to do that with a used gun, like in Georgia,...but seriously doubt it with a new purchase.
    " Refuse to be a victim, make sure there is a round chambered ! "

    Just call me a pessimistic optimist !

    U.S. Navy vet 1981-1992

  5. #4
    Ex Member Array MP45CDE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Dark Earth
    Posts
    130
    According to Wikipedia, "Under United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is not the "actual purchaser", but is acting as a proxy for another person. Although the term is commonly used to refer to purchasing on behalf of a person who is legally ineligible to purchase or possess a firearm, the law does not make that distinction.

    The term does not apply when the firearm is being purchased as a bona fide gift."

    Look up "Straw Purchase"

  6. #5
    Ex Member Array NavyLT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    471
    Quote Originally Posted by walvord View Post
    If it were me, I'd give him the money for a firearm and let him go purchase one. On the surface, I think the BATF will look at it as a straw purchase - I could be entirely wrong on this though. I just wouldn't do it and eliminate all doubt.
    Can't give him the money and let him buy it. He is 18 and can only receive a handgun in a private transaction.

    Actually, if he were 21 and were to buy the gun from an FFL with my money, then a straw purchase would occur, because I gave him the money with the express purpose of using it to buy a gun. Therefore, since he was using my money which I gave him to buy a gun with, then it could be construed to be a straw purchase, in a very remote way.

  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,681
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Can't give him the money and let him buy it. He is 18 and can only receive a handgun in a private transaction.
    I wonder how girlfriend feels about this? And why not give the money to her to purchase?

    Rick

  8. #7
    Ex Member Array NavyLT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    471
    Quote Originally Posted by artz View Post
    Betcha they'll say it is a straw purchase also. You might be able to do that with a used gun, like in Georgia,...but seriously doubt it with a new purchase.
    It is not a straw purchase, because I am, in fact, the actual purchaser of the firearm. I am not purchasing it with someone else's money nor with the intention of receiving someone else's money for it. I am buying with the intention of giving it as a gift, which is not illegal according to 18 USC 922.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    St. Charles County Missouri
    Posts
    991
    If the girlfriend is the mother of the boy, then send her the money and let her purchase the firearm for her son. That might fly. I'd just wait until he is able to purchase his own firearm though. I would not want to have anything look shady in any way with the BATF. If my wife wants a firearm, she buys her own. If I want one, I buy my own - with her permission of course. The kids don't get any firearms until they're of age. Now there might be an implied message that they will receive a particular firearm when they are of age, but not a minute before.
    The most exhilarating thing in life is getting shot at with no results.
    - Winston Churchill
    Endowment Life Member - NRA
    Life Member - GOA
    Member - Oath Keepers, SAF, CCRKBA
    U.S. Army (72G) 1975-1980

  10. #9
    Ex Member Array NavyLT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    471
    Quote Originally Posted by MP45CDE View Post
    According to Wikipedia, "Under United States federal gun laws, a straw purchase is any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is not the "actual purchaser", but is acting as a proxy for another person. Although the term is commonly used to refer to purchasing on behalf of a person who is legally ineligible to purchase or possess a firearm, the law does not make that distinction.

    The term does not apply when the firearm is being purchased as a bona fide gift."

    Look up "Straw Purchase"
    Ding, Ding, Ding, WE HAVE A WINNER!

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    St. Charles County Missouri
    Posts
    991
    I think on the BATF form that is filled out at purchase, it asks the question as to whether you are buying the firearm for someone else and will you be the owner or something to that affect. If the BATF got jumpy, I just wouldn't want to have to prove in court that it was a bona fide gift especially since the boy is not a relative by blood or marriage. I don't think the form addresses "gifts".
    The most exhilarating thing in life is getting shot at with no results.
    - Winston Churchill
    Endowment Life Member - NRA
    Life Member - GOA
    Member - Oath Keepers, SAF, CCRKBA
    U.S. Army (72G) 1975-1980

  12. #11
    Ex Member Array NavyLT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    471
    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    I wonder how girlfriend feels about this? And why not give the money to her to purchase?

    Rick
    Girlfriend loves the idea. I can't give her the money with the express reason for her to buy a gun with, because then she would be buying the gun on my behalf which would be a straw purchase.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    St. Charles County Missouri
    Posts
    991
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Girlfriend loves the idea. I can't give her the money with the express reason for her to buy a gun with, because then she would be buying the gun on my behalf which would be a straw purchase.
    I thought you would be buying the firearm for the boy, not yourself.
    The most exhilarating thing in life is getting shot at with no results.
    - Winston Churchill
    Endowment Life Member - NRA
    Life Member - GOA
    Member - Oath Keepers, SAF, CCRKBA
    U.S. Army (72G) 1975-1980

  14. #13
    Ex Member Array NavyLT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    471
    Quote Originally Posted by walvord View Post
    If the girlfriend is the mother of the boy, then send her the money and let her purchase the firearm for her son. That might fly. I'd just wait until he is able to purchase his own firearm though. I would not want to have anything look shady in any way with the BATF. If my wife wants a firearm, she buys her own. If I want one, I buy my own - with her permission of course. The kids don't get any firearms until they're of age. Now there might be an implied message that they will receive a particular firearm when they are of age, but not a minute before.
    How about this one: I am Active Duty Navy stationed in Oklahoma. My wife and I maintain Wyoming driver's licenses. I can buy a handgun in Oklahoma by showing my military ID and orders to Oklahoma. My wife cannot. She wants a handgun. We go to the FFL, Brigadoon's in OKC, she picks out the gun she wants, a Taurus Judge revolver, I fill out the paperwork in my name, I pay for the gun with a check with both of our names printed on it, but I sign it, Mark at Brigadoon's doesn't even hand the gun to me, he hands it to her, because he knows it was purchased as a bona fide gift and everything is legal. This is a true story. I also bought her a S&W .460 revolver at Outdoor America in OKC exactly the same way, and a Glock 27 at Ace Hardware in Oak Harbor, WA in exactly the same way. Scott was the guy's name at Ace Hardware. And it's all because of her Wyoming driver's license.

    Don't ask about girlfriend and her son, they are actually fictitious, but the topic of the argument was gifts to 18 year olds her aren't relatives, so the wife doesn't work.

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    4,244
    18 years old and wants to shoot...
    Take him to the nearest Army or Marine recruiter!
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The western edge of The Confederacy
    Posts
    2,198
    Actually there is also the issue of state law. In my state, NM, you only have to be 19 to possess a handgun, although if you are under the supervision of a parent or guardian, you can be any age. I'm not sure about OK, but I think in WA
    you need to be 21 just to possess under state law.
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
    Edge of Darkness

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. handgun gift to CA
    By BillR in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: January 21st, 2010, 01:54 PM
  2. Italian relative gun gift
    By dukalmighty in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: August 20th, 2009, 02:33 AM
  3. Giving a handgun as a gift to a familiy member? What are the laws?
    By razz in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: August 13th, 2009, 01:02 AM
  4. NY Lawmakers Want Five Year Handgun Licenses
    By mrreynolds in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: April 24th, 2009, 02:07 PM
  5. Penna. gift handgun law help wanted
    By xercise2nd in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: December 29th, 2006, 11:59 AM

Search tags for this page

18 to own handgun
,

buying a handgun at 18

,
can i own a pistol at 18
,
can you buy a handgun at 18
,
can you give an 18 year old a handgun as a gift
,

handgun at 18

,

how to buy a handgun at 18

,

how to get a handgun at 18

,
how to gift a handgun
,

own a handgun at 18

,
own a pistol at 18
,

owning a handgun at 18

Click on a term to search for related topics.