Actually using it for protection

This is a discussion on Actually using it for protection within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; OK y'all have been extremely patient and helpful with me so far - you can see I have blasted on your forums for the last ...

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Thread: Actually using it for protection

  1. #1
    Member Array DaveInTexas's Avatar
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    Actually using it for protection

    OK y'all have been extremely patient and helpful with me so far - you can see I have blasted on your forums for the last 2 days with a bunch of newbie questions and I thank you very much for the good info.
    Now. About the laws that protect you in cases of actually using the firearm to protect yourself/family/property from the bad guys....
    Texas specific, if anyone can help. (I am no good at interpreting regulation and statute so a ref to posted laws really is not much use to me......I need the Plain Language version please.)
    I want to ask about what the law says I can do and not do, with regard to using the firearm for self defense. I have a house/car/wife/business/employees, all on 20 acres of property. I travel to town like most people but not a lot. I fly an airplane around the state and occasionally around the country.



    1. What does the law say about using a firearm in my home, on my property, or business or on a roadside while 'under attack' (my term)?

    ie how does the law define the exact point when it is ok to pull the trigger? Or is it a subjective thing, depending on how each specific judge interprets the law?

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  3. #2
    Member Array jeremy45's Avatar
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    Disclaimer: I'm no where near an expert on this issue.

    The hard part about Texas law is that it does not specifically define when you can and cannot use your weapon to defend yourself.

    However, reading the book I received in my CHL packet you are safest using your weapon if someone is trying to get into or remove you from your 1) residence 2) vehicle or 3) business. But there is no clearly defined line when you can and cannot.

    But I'm sure you will get some much better info from someone alot more knowledgeable than me.

    ETA: From what I understand there is no requirement to retreat in Texas, however, there is no law protecting you from civil suit either. (correct me if I'm wrong)
    Prepare for the unknown by studying how others in the past have coped with the unforeseeable and the unpredictable.
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    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    Jeez, research your state laws! Don't take life altering advise from a forum that may consist of 14-year-old mall ninjas! If you don't understand them, get advise from an attorney or training from a qualified instructor!
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

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    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    I am not a lawyer, but I am a Texan!

    In Texas you can defend yourself or a 3rd party if you fear your's or their lives are in danger. In your home or on your property you can defend yourself with almost no questions asked. The Castle doctrine expanded that to your car and place of work.

    I echo AZ Husker in saying you need to study up on it and make sure you know the laws, you may need to rely on them one day.

    Here are some links to get you started:

    Texas3006.com - Your 30.06 Information Resource - Home

    TCHA: Civilian Carry

    You may also want to check out the Texas CHL forum, as well as the DPS CHL site (to get a copy of the laws). http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/ls-16.pdf
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    DaveInTexas:

    Basically:
    9.31. SELF-DEFENSE. (a) Except as provided in
    Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against
    another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is
    immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or
    attempted use of unlawful force.
    Though, as with many statutes, there are limitations as to when it's applicable. As with many places, your noogies (and future freedoms) are on the line if you get it wrong.

    The Texas Dept. Of Public Safety maintains a summary (2007-2008) of CHL related laws: click. Of course, use-of-force statutes and related elements go well beyond the licensing/carrying protocols.

    Check the Texas Penal Code, setions 9.31, 9.32, 9.33 and 9.34. If questions, definitely speak with a competent attorney to clarify.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #6
    Member Array DaveInTexas's Avatar
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    Ok, I think I need examples.
    -a complete stranger tries to get into the house. They don't have any kind of weapon. You believe they mean you harm, or are there to damage or steal your property.

    -in a public place, someone is very abusive and won't stop despite your warnings, they are moving close to you and waving their arms, jerking about in a threatening manner and you know it is about result in them swinging at you although they are unarmed.

    in both cases you are alone, no way to exit, no law enforcement handy or reasonably expected to show before its over

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy45 View Post

    ETA: From what I understand there is no requirement to retreat in Texas, however, there is no law protecting you from civil suit either. (correct me if I'm wrong)
    Correct on "No Retreat", but wrong on civil liability. Civil protection is statutory with a "good shoot".

    Here it is.........

    ClVlL PRACTICE AND REMEDIES CODE
    CPRC CH. 83. USE OF DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON
    CPRC g 83.001. ClVlL IMMUNITY. A defendant who uses force or
    deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune
    from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the
    defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable.
    OP:

    Please please please go get a qualified attorney!
    Richard

    NRA Life Member

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  9. #8
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Pretty basic if you are in fear for your life and that use of deadly force is the only way to protect yourself.we have had several examples of when diaplaying a gun is pretty stupid over the last couple weeks especially,in other words don't draw to try to intimidate somebody.
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  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveInTexas View Post
    Ok, I think I need examples.
    -a complete stranger tries to get into the house. They don't have any kind of weapon. You believe they mean you harm, or are there to damage or steal your property.
    And you know this how? Did they strip down in front of your house so you could see they have no weapon?

    This is a concealed carry forum, where we talk about concealed weapons. Look up the definition if you need more clarification.

    -in a public place, someone is very abusive and won't stop despite your warnings, they are moving close to you and waving their arms, jerking about in a threatening manner and you know it is about result in them swinging at you although they are unarmed.
    Again, and you know this how? Outside in pubic the rules change greatly and the risks increase as well. Look up "Disparity of force" and learn how to "Defuse a situation".

    Follow the advice of several of the other members. Consult a trainer, consult a lawyer, read up on the laws, and look up the words you don't understand or fully comprehend.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  11. #10
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    Dave, these are questions you should be or should have ask your instructor. If you have not taken your course, ask them when you go to it. If you have already taken it, I would suggest you take it again as a refresher, or contact the instructor. He is suppose to be up on the laws there in TX and should be able to answer all your questions, or find you the answer if he doesn't know. As others have said, don't trust your life, safety financial well being to a forum. While answers are given with well intentions, we are not lawyers and the info you get may be outdated or just plain hearsay.
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  12. #11
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveInTexas View Post
    Ok, I think I need examples.
    -a complete stranger tries to get into the house. They don't have any kind of weapon. You believe they mean you harm, or are there to damage or steal your property.

    -in a public place, someone is very abusive and won't stop despite your warnings, they are moving close to you and waving their arms, jerking about in a threatening manner and you know it is about result in them swinging at you although they are unarmed.

    in both cases you are alone, no way to exit, no law enforcement handy or reasonably expected to show before its over
    My answers are for MY situation in my state, based on how I and my attorney have interpreted the statutes that apply to me.

    * If faced with abuse, threatening speech/action/behavior, a rapidly closing window/space, and lack of knowledge of whether the aggressor was armed, could I defend myself? Sure. But the statutes that apply to me require me to bring to bear ONLY the amount of force that I deem necessary to thwart an attack. Note also that bitchery isn't sufficient to earn a death sentence.

    * Someone invades my home, I believe that person is there to do harm, and I am uncertain whether that person is armed with man-made weaponry. Could I defend myself? Sure. Same basic standards, though invasion of my home allows some leeway. There is a legal presumption of intention to do harm. But still, I am limited by the statutes to bring to bear ONLY the amount of force required to thwart the crime and protect innocents.

    Now, no matter what action I choose to pursue, I'm going to be on tap to justify my actions. I'd better survive it, but then I'd better be able to articulate and specify (through my attorney) why my actions were required and justified. In short, I won't be damaged if I can help it. If thwarting that damage to me and my loved ones requires a level of force that ends up displeasing the felon, then the felon will end up having to deal with the risks that result from his chosen profession. So be it.

    The minimum standards by which I try to be guided are: A.O.J. -- Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy. That's a far higher standard than required in my state, and in most places. It's a fair bet (though, bet only) that it'll be sufficient to ensure my defensive actions get seen for what they are: defensive in nature, in the face of a clear and deadly threat, for which I had few alternatives.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  13. #12
    Member Array jeremy45's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Rock and Glock;883722]Correct on "No Retreat", but wrong on civil liability. Civil protection is statutory with a "good shoot".

    Thank you Rock and Glock.
    Prepare for the unknown by studying how others in the past have coped with the unforeseeable and the unpredictable.
    George S. Patton

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