Gun buying question for school - urgent! - Page 2

Gun buying question for school - urgent!

This is a discussion on Gun buying question for school - urgent! within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; As the "mock" prosecutor, have you checked this out--"The boyfriend claims he wasn't in the city at the time. " Maybe you have the wrong ...

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  1. #16
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    Array Hopyard's Avatar
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    Jun 2006
    As the "mock" prosecutor, have you checked this out--"The boyfriend claims he wasn't in the city at the time. "

    Maybe you have the wrong guy?

  2. #17
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Feb 2008
    Yep you have to prove motive opportunity and ability,I know a lot of cases that were never prosecuted for lack of evidence,even if the guy was in the city,you have to be able to either place him at the scene of the crime with a witness or forensic evidence,or if a bullet was recovered match it to a handgun he owns,If proving a murder had anything to do with gun ownership I'd be getting hauled in everytime somebody got shot
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  3. #18
    Sponsor Array CCW Jackets's Avatar
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    Oct 2008
    The big apple!
    You can't get any CWP on all points in NY. Good luck getting one even if you do have a clean record these days. Tactical and Undercover Solutions for Men AND Women!

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array WC145's Avatar
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    Sep 2008
    Downeast Maine
    Here in Maine a restraining/protection order means giving up the guns you have and you aren't supposed to purchase or possess. If it is illegal for you to possess you cannot get a concealed weapons permit. Whether or not it is revoked depends on whether or not the order is temporary or permanent or if convicted. Most states are set up similarly.

    A state issued restraining order may not show on the NICS system, especially in the short time your talking about, if at all. However, the question is asked on the 4473 form you fill out when purchasing a gun and if you lie on the form you are committing a crime. Of course people lie all the time to try and get away with it. Keep in mind there is no background checks on private sales unless the two parties have an FFL holder do the transfer.

    The best thing you can do is to call the District Attorney's Office in your area and ask them these questions. I'm sure that someone there would be more than happy to help you, just explain why you're asking as you have done here.

  5. #20
    Member Array bal_g23's Avatar
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    Sep 2007
    Washington State
    [QUOTE=user;928877]It would appear from your summary that your case is entirely circumstantial. In order to succeed at trial, your evidence has to point exclusively to the idea that the defendant committed the homicide, and to no other theory. So I see your questions as pretty much irrelevant. The question is whether he did, in fact, have a gun, regardless of whether he was authorized to do so or not; was the gun of the correct caliber, was he in the city at the time of the murder (and thus lying about his whereabouts), and things like that. Who cares whether he had permission to have a concealed handgun, what's that got to do with the murder?

    And here's the kicker - even if you disprove his affirmative defense ("I wasn't in the city at the time of the murder"), you still have to prove the elements of the offense with proof beyond a reasonable doubt. I generally don't do prosecutions, because it's a lot easier to do defense: the defendant doesn't have to "win", he only has to "not lose". You, on the other hand, have to win.

    Here's some more background for you guys to get a better picture of whats going on. (sorry I know its alot)

    Chuck Jones and Cindy Smith met at a party in late 2006, they then start dating. In early 2007, they move in together along with Cindy's son Chris. Chuck's job becomes more stressful, and he starts drinking more and more. One one occasion during a verbal argument, he punches Cindy in the chest. When shes on the ground he punches her again in the head. Her son comes to try and help and Chuck punches him too. On another occasion, Chuck throws Cindy into the ground and Chris again comes out. He says hes going to call the police. Chuck rips the phone cord out of the wall and punches Chris in the face. Cindy and Chris move out the next day and Cindy gets a restraing order against Chuck. Chuck stops going to work in order to follow Cindy home from work. One time she realizes hes following her car, so she pulls up to a police station. She runs inside and tells an officer she thinks hes trying to kill her. When they go back out, Chuck is gone. Chuck moves in with his friend Taylor Burns. His drinking increases, and he is fired. Chuck and Taylor are big firearm enthusiasts. Chuck carries a S&W .357 Magnum and Taylor a semiautomatic 9mm. Taylor once teased Chuck about only having 6 shots, and Chuck said "Hell, It'd only take one shot if I ever wanted to kill anyone." Chuck would set up targets and joked to Taylor "If only I could use Cindy as a target." Chuck took all head shots, one round at a time. Later on, he got drunk and told Taylor "If I cant have Cindy, Im going to make sure nobody can." and "I think the only way to really get her out of my mind is to kill her." He also said after getting fired that it was Cindys fault and "He'd make her pay for getting him fired." The night before the murder, Chuck told Taylor he thought it would be a good idea if he left his old life behind and went to live in another nearby city with his friend Sean. While he was packing his bag, Taylor saw Chuck putting his one and only holster into the bottom of a duffle bag. He left that night. At 10:32, a witness saw two cars (one turned out to be Cindy) matching speeds down a street (two blocks from Cindys house) until they came to an intersection. Once the cars started to slow, the car on the left rolled down its passenger side window and a gunshot was heard. The round went through Cindys window and hit her in the left side of the head. The shooter sped off in an unknown direction. Chuck came back to his friend Taylors house the next day, where a detective was waiting. When Chuck saw the police car in the drive way, he went the other way and drove off. The detective followed him and he pulled over. Chuck was taken out and put in handcuffs. The detective found empty beer cans in the back seat and the holster stuffed under the drivers seat. The officer asked where his gun was and Chuck said it was stolen a while ago, he could not recall when, and but he didnt file a police report and didnt tell anyone about the theft. Chuck called Taylor from jail later and told him to go to his desk and take out a letter and burn it. The letter was addressed to Cindy. It can be taken as either a suicide note or a death threat depending on how you look at it, but one of the lines is "Im so sorry it had to end this way, I hope you take with you the memories of the good times we had." Now Chuck is standing trial for murder. Im the lead member of the prosecution team and plan to use these facts to help convict him.

    Cindy was shot with a .357 Magnum revolver, as identified by a ballistics expert
    Chuck's only gun was a .357 Magnum

    Cindy was shot once in the head
    Chuck practiced single head shots

    Chucks friend in the nearby town was on vacation so he never saw Chuck. Chuck claims to have slept in his car.

    A witness to the shooting identified a red mustang at the scene, Chuck drives a red mustang

    Chuck admitted he said: The only way to get her out of my mind is to kill her, Im going to make Cindy pay for getting me fired, if I cant have her Im going to make sure nobody else can, and that he would pretend the targets he shot at were Cindy.

    Taylor Burns saw Chuck packing his holster deep in his bag for a one night trip, but it was found the next day jammed under the drivers seat. What reason would he have to dig into his bag, and throw it under the seat? Especially when he claims his gun was stolen.

    Cindys son said that Cindy had gone out and bought a cell phone to keep in her purse so she could call the police in case Chuck came after her while she was driving. The officer responding to the scene of the crime said he saw a cell phone laying on the floor of the car. If she had time to take out the phone, she knew who was in the car next to her, it was no stranger or gang member.

    The defense might claim that Chuck brought the holster to the other city in order to purchase a new gun there, and then carry it out. But there are some flaws in that argument. First of all, Chuck himself said he left at 11PM. What gun store is open that late? Chuck would have had to pass a background check to get a new gun, but he has a restraining order and a pending domestic violence charge.

    Sorry its alot to read, I know.

    I believe its a shoulder thing that goes up - Carolyn McCarthy (D)

    The muzzle end of a .45 pretty much says go away in every language.
    -Clint Smith

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Feb 2008
    All you have to do is prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt,It sounds like with the past violent relationship,statenments made by defendant,independent statement by witness on type and color of suspects car.Chucky's got some splainin to do,oh wait all his statements turned out to be lies,I hope he likes prison
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  7. #22
    Ex Member Array NavyLT's Avatar
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    Sep 2008
    Washington State
    Sorry, dukalmighty, I have to disagree with you. There is no physical evidence linking Chucky to our crime. What we need here is explosives residue tests on Chucky's hands and inside his car.

    This is the difference between the American justice system and the Iraqi justice system. (I am in Iraq, BTW). The Iraqi justice system is based upon witnesses. Right now we are training the Iraqi judges exactly on what forensics is. For instance, the case above would probably be a slam dunk in an Iraqi court. But, you take that same case, remove the witnesses but add the explosives traces on his hands and in his car, maybe even dna evidence in his or her car... now it is a slam dunk in a US Court because of the forensic evidence, but in an Iraqi court, because there wasn't a witness you might be SOL.

    So, the big question to the prosecutor is that you don't seem to have evidence that Chuck actually fired the gun - either witness or forensic. Explosives residue on his hands tosses out the "my gun was stolen" crap. Explosives residue in his car is even better. Right now though... without a witness saying they saw Chuck pull the trigger, I don't think you have a case.

    All this research about is it legal for him to have the gun, purchase the gun, etc... that's just fluff to add another charge to his convictions but doesn't help in the murder case. BTW, without a CPL, it's illegal for the loaded gun to be in the vehicle, concealed or not.

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