January 16th, 2006 02:31 PM
Kids and real gun copies
Found this re the 'look-a-like' gun problems. Something which needs attention these days !
Robbers brandish BB guns, police say
By Richard Willing, USA TODAY
The air guns are inexpensive, easy to buy and often look like the real thing.
Since July 2004, police in 11 states — Alaska, California, Florida, Illinois, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, Ohio and Pennsylvania — have recorded a total of more than 50 such robberies, many of which involved youths who used BB guns to steal money and groceries.
In Toledo, Ohio, and in Philadelphia, would-be robbers with BB guns were shot with real guns by people they allegedly were threatening.
In Toledo last June, a 30-year-old man was shot in the leg by police after he allegedly pointed a BB pistol at them as the officers tried to break up a grocery store robbery, Toledo police say. The man, who survived, was charged with robbery and assault. A similar shooting happened recently in Philadelphia, where a man with a BB gun tried to hold up another man — who happened to be carrying a real gun.
Police officials point to an incident last Friday in Longwood, Fla., as an example of how difficult it can be for officers to quickly distinguish between a real gun and a BB or pellet gun made to look like the real thing.
A sheriff's deputy fatally shot Christopher Penley, 15, during a confrontation at his school. The youth pointed what appeared to be a Beretta pistol at officers; it turned out to be a pellet gun. (Related story: Vigil held for shot student)
"It's getting kind of scary," says Capt. Michael Sinclair, who leads the detective squad in southwest Philadelphia, where at least 13 BB-gun holdups have occurred during the past two months. "These (BB guns) look like the real thing. One gets stuck in your ribs, there's no way you know the difference."
Cheap alternative to guns
BB-firing rifles cost as little as $30 and BB handguns cost slightly more, making the new generation of real-looking air guns attractive to petty thieves.
Jack King, spokesman for the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, says many robbers who use BB guns also may be motivated by the belief that those caught using a replica of a firearm face lesser charges than those who use the real thing. That's true in some jurisdictions, King says, but not always.
Among the recent incidents involving air guns:
• In Philadelphia, police have arrested 15 defendants, including 13 younger than 18, in the 13 recent robberies involving BB guns. Among those arrested was a 12-year-old boy accused of using a BB pistol to commandeer a car driven by three college students. Six BB pistols were recovered in the incidents, Sinclair says.
• Police in Anchorage last month arrested a 14-year-old boy on assault and robbery charges after he allegedly pushed a BB pistol into a 13-year-old's ribs and demanded money. The pistol had a silver slide and a black chamber and looked "just like a Glock," Anchorage police Sgt. Gil Davis says.
• In Ocean Township, N.J., last August, a 23-year-old man and his 21-year-old partner were charged with using a BB pistol to rob a man who was making a night deposit at a bank.
• In Minneapolis last May, police confiscated a BB pistol and arrested a 19-year-old man and an 18-year-old man in connection with 22 late-night robberies of pedestrians in the city's Uptown area. One holdup victim was shot twice with BBs. He was not injured seriously.
Bob Hampton, director of marketing for Crosman Corp. of East Bloomfield, N.Y., a leading maker of air guns, says such robberies are "a concern."
He says manufacturers recently began applying bright orange paint to the muzzles of replica air guns to make them easier to distinguish from real firearms.
Not considered firearms
Air guns, which have been produced and sold in this country since the 1880s, use compressed air or carbon dioxide to expel metal or plastic pellets. They are not considered a firearm, Hampton says, but pellets can break the skin and cause injury to vulnerable areas such as eyes or ears.
Air guns found a mass market after World War I, according to Crosman and Daisy Manufacturing of Rogers, Ark., another major manufacturer of the guns. BB guns quickly became part of American lore. Daisy's Red Ryder air rifle was featured in the 1983 movie A Christmas Story, in which a boy in 1940s America tries to persuade his parents to buy him a Red Ryder.
Customers — at first primarily rural parents who wanted to teach their children to shoot — now include target shooters, farmers and collectors of replica weapons, Hampton says.
Hampton estimates that Crosman and Daisy each sell about 1 million air guns a year. Daisy did not respond to a request for information.
Wendy Balazik, spokeswoman for the International Association of Chiefs of Police, says police do not keep track of how often BB guns are used to carry out robberies. She says anecdotal evidence suggests that such robberies have occurred from time to time.
Sinclair says the recent wave of BB-gun incidents makes it seem like using them in crimes is "almost like a fad.
"Maybe it's a case of the guns are cheap and easy to get, (and) one kid tells another kid it's easy," he says.
The use of BB guns in crimes is viewed differently from state to state. In Pennsylvania, for example, using a BB gun in a crime likely would draw a maximum prison sentence of five years, compared with seven years if a real gun were used, Sinclair says.
In South Carolina, a holdup involving a BB gun is considered no different than one involving a firearm, says Deborah Ahrens, law professor at the University of South Carolina.
"If it looks like a deadly weapon, lo and behold, it is a deadly weapon, even if it fires puppies and flowers," Ahrens says.
"It's monumentally stupid to use a weapon to commit any crime," says Larry Keane, legal counsel to the National Shooting Sports Foundation in Newtown, Conn. "It takes a special class of stupidity to do so with a BB gun."
diplomacy ... the art of saying "nice doggie"..while looking for a big rock !!
January 16th, 2006 02:41 PM
Guess I've never seen those silver slide Glock models :)
The pistol had a silver slide and a black chamber and looked "just like a Glock," Anchorage police Sgt. Gil Davis says.
There's a statement I can agree with!
It's monumentally stupid to use a weapon to commit any crime
Liberty is an inherently offensive lifestyle. Living in a free society guarantees that each one of us will see our most cherished principles and beliefs questioned and in some cases mocked. It's worth it.
January 16th, 2006 03:26 PM
While I was in Ohio for a convention I found a dealer that carries new air-soft guns. These have Very realistic actions, mags, moving slides and have about the same weight as the pistols they are copied from. They are charged from a compressed aircan (no CO2) that the manufacture sells(can we say captive market). They ran $180 and use standard air-soft bb's. No Orange on the tip and the dealer was from California. He insisted that they were legal in California an that they would never be restricted(Fat chance everything is restricted in CA). They would be nice force on force drills because of the realism.
-Diplomacy: The art of saying nice dogie until you can find a rock.
-The truth is a three edged sword.
-Your brain is your primary weapon everything else is just a tool.
-When the only tool you have is a hammer then everything starts to look like a nail.
January 16th, 2006 03:34 PM
I have seen these ''green gas'' charged BB guns and they work well - excellent for fun and practice but yeah - way too authentic looking IMO.
That said - there are other things that just could be regarded as guns or lethal threat weapons and so I would say the prime directive if in a situation where the cops are present - is SHOW HANDS IN PLAIN SIGHT - I mean what other alternative is there to be safe. It has to be totally obvious, surely?
Kids must understand this - even a darned cell phone (per an incident last year IIRC) has been taken as suspicious - why should anyone take the chance unless they seek a suicide by cop.
This then in some ways makes it irrelevant just how ''real'' any ''toy'' gun looks.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
January 16th, 2006 04:45 PM
Glock did make a two tone there for awhile ..also bad boys 2 will smith used the 2 tone guns..
Well i dont feel sorry for anyone who gets shot trying to use a air pistol/bb pistol/ real gun in a robbery or some other crime
If your that dumb ya get whats coming to ya
January 16th, 2006 08:19 PM
When he was 12 my dad carried a 12 blac-power shotgun to school and back for shooting squirels and rabbits for the stewpot.
He never used the weapon to commit a crime, or threaten a classmate.
The problem isn't realistic, or even real, guns in the hands of minors. The problem is these kids aren't being brought up to handle the responsibility of firearms... or any other kind of responsibility for that matter.
"I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.
January 18th, 2006 03:36 PM
TANKSOLDIER HIT IT RIGHT ON!
its not "necessarily" the kids, its the parents and the lack of time, interest, morals, values, respect, etc. being taught to said kids, that is and will be there demise. then the kids responsiblity for not using his brain. as anybody knows if ya do a crime fully expect and be prepared to do the time. if ya get away with it then you got lucky.IMHO.
we do the same thing with a CHL. we all weigh the risks of our actions and proceed accordingly weighing all the + & -'s.
i carried a knife thru every grade of school since 8th, and a visible belt knife in high school and college (i'm 40) never once was it balked at, frowned upon, or restricted in any way. now ya can't bring a knife (as a student) into a school without facing suspension and expulsion.
maybe thats goodin some areas due to falling responsibility/sensibility levels of the "youths".
This is mine. That is yours.
Lets keep it that way.
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