Does my site violate PayPal's rules.

Does my site violate PayPal's rules.

This is a discussion on Does my site violate PayPal's rules. within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; PayPal's new restrictions "(h) certain firearms, firearm parts or accessories, ammunition, weapons or knives" I sell muzzleloading bullets and accessories online. I have for over ...

View Poll Results: Does my site violate PayPals rules?

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  • Yes

    9 64.29%
  • No

    5 35.71%
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Thread: Does my site violate PayPal's rules.

  1. #1
    New Member Array bpbullets's Avatar
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    Unhappy Does my site violate PayPal's rules.

    PayPal's new restrictions "(h) certain firearms, firearm parts or accessories, ammunition, weapons or knives"

    I sell muzzleloading bullets and accessories online. I have for over 5 years now. I don't sell weapons of any kind. I don't sell anything that any person cannot walk into Wal-Mart and buy over the counter that even has an age limit. I don't sell ammunition, since I don't sell anything that contains powder or primer; nor do I sell those items. Ammunition by definition is made up of three things; projectile, powder and primer, thus I don't sell ammunition.

    When is the last time anyone heard of someone committing a crime with muzzleloader bullets.

    Well, last year EBay shut my store down although, if you check bpbullets had 100% positive feedback, because they claimed I violated the above rule.

    This week PayPal limited my account for the same reason.

    If I were selling anything that could be seriously considered a threat of being used to commit a crime or could not be legally be purchased on any number of other sites; Cabelas comes to mind, or at any sporting goods store without restriction, I would not have a complaint.

    You be the judge. The leaders of PayPal are in a position to affect a large number of people. Are they anti-gun or not? Does what I sell violate their rules or just their feelings about guns in general? Are muzzleloaders, which I don't sell on my site, considered by the FFL to be firearms?


    I have reviewed US CODE COLLECTION; TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 921Prev | Next § 921. Definitions.

    US CODE: Title 18,921. Definitions

    I believe you allow antique firearms. If that is so, the bullets and accessorries I sell are included by the above US Title, see below a copy and paste from Title 18:

    (16) The term “antique firearm” means—
    (A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
    (B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
    (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
    (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
    (C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

    Therefore, I am in compliance with PayPal’s "(h) certain firearms, firearm parts or accessories, ammunition, weapons or knives" rule, since nothing I sell can be used in a firearm that is not considered an antique under US Title 18.
    Last edited by bpbullets; February 14th, 2009 at 11:06 AM. Reason: I have since looked up the legal definition of firearm.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array tankdriver's Avatar
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    I have been a PayPal member since they started, I have sold on eBay since 98, back when you COULD sell guns on eBay. both have become very Anti-gun. Anytime I use PayPal it is for "Machine Parts".
    1942 M3 Autocar Half-track...M3A1 Diamond T Half-track...57mm Anti-Tank Cannon

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  3. #3
    New Member Array bpbullets's Avatar
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    How does my site violate PayPal's own rules, based on US Title 18 since muzzleloaders which use my bullets are considered antiques?

  4. #4
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    Your poll is missleading. Your topic is "PayPal anti-gun or not?" but you poll is about "Does my site violate PayPals rules".

    So I voted yes that paypal is anti-gun not seeing your poll question.

    Man I need another cup of coffee.

  5. #5
    New Member Array bpbullets's Avatar
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    Good point! I changed it...I am on my third cup now.

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    It is my understanding that Ebay and PayPal are owned by the same people who are anti-gun. Therefore I DON'T USE them they don't need my money.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array bbqgrill's Avatar
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    Ebay has gone way to PC it really ticks me off. I used to be able to buy and sell barrels for my Thompson Encore now the won't even allow that: without the receiver an Encore barrel is just a real expensive club.
    "To believe that social reforms can eradicate evil altogether is to forget that evil is a protean creature, forever assuming a new shape when deprived of an old one." - SAT

    Never argue with an idiot - they'll bring you down to their level then beat you with experience.

  8. #8
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    Ebay owns PayPal - Ebay is home based in California.

    So all of the screwball rules and regs pertaining to California laws & restrictions are now applicable to both PayPal & Ebay.

    That would be even if the transactions themselves do not take place in CA.
    I believe that is what the CA State Supreme Court ruled.

    Actually what most folks do not realize is that (way back) some Ebay sellers ruined it for everybody by skipping the FFL to FFL regulations and shipping handguns directly to home addresses through the U.S. Priority Mail.

    One handgun was sold and shipped directly to an underage high bidder.

    That is what started the ball rolling through the CA courts.

    Ebay then still permitted the sale of gun parts such as barrels, slides, and magazines - until it hit the news that one school shooting (or some other high profile shooting) the shooter purchased his gun magazines on Ebay.

    So it was deadly PR for Ebay and they were pretty much pressured by the CA anti-gunners to halt all major gun component sales.

    And that is pretty much where it is today.
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  9. #9
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Yep about the only gun related thing I see on Ebay are 1911 safetys and holsters.There may be others
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Squawker's Avatar
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    You screwed yourself using the name bpBULLETS! I agree that you should have been ok, but with bullets in the user name, you really can't win.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I bought 500 once fired cases of 44 mag about 18 months ago on ebay when they announced they would no longer sell brass bullets or magazines etc on the site.
    It doesn't matter whether we think you are violating their rules, they think you are and that is what counts
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  12. #12
    Member Array user's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    It is my understanding that Ebay and PayPal are owned by the same people who are anti-gun. Therefore I DON'T USE them they don't need my money.
    Me too - also if you read the contract, you'll see that you're subject to a lawsuit in San Jose, California if you violate their rules. They can and will get a judgment against you there which will be valid where you live in the U.S.; they can domesticate the Cal. judgment in a local court and the only valid defense when that happens is that the Cal. court lacked jurisdiction. Since you signed up for a contract that specifically states that you voluntarily submit to the jurisdiction of the California courts, you're screwed. I wouldn't do business with them.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    Nothing I say as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice. Legal questions should be presented to a competent attorney licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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