Learned the difference between "Cover" and "Concealment"

Learned the difference between "Cover" and "Concealment"

This is a discussion on Learned the difference between "Cover" and "Concealment" within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I was reminiscing about my last range trip with my PSL, Mosin Nagant 91/30, Mello Yello's AK, His Step Dads 7mm, Bushmaster, and my buddies ...

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Thread: Learned the difference between "Cover" and "Concealment"

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Learned the difference between "Cover" and "Concealment"

    I was reminiscing about my last range trip with my PSL, Mosin Nagant 91/30, Mello Yello's AK, His Step Dads 7mm, Bushmaster, and my buddies H&H 375 mag.

    We had a 16x16 steel plate, 5/16" thick, and another 1'x1' 1/2" thick.

    5/16" plate;

    At 15m it was cover for a 12ga slug. At 100m it was cover for the 7.62x39, and .223. 7mm, 7.62x54r and .375 it was concealment.

    At 200m, and 300m it was still only concealment for the HP rifles.


    1/2" plate;

    At 100m it was concealment for the HP rifles.

    At 200m it was barely cover for the HP rifles (dented out the back 5/16") and the Mosin 91/30 (7.62x54r) started to tear through. I would not want to stay put for a second shot if the shooter had any skill.

    It was rather sobering seeing the holes (massive ones from the .375) in the thin plate. Borderline disturbing seeing the damage to the 1/2" plate.

    Moral of this. If someone is shooting at you with a HP rifle .30 cal or larger, you are kind of screwed unless you have a nice thick concrete wall between the two of you.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    Don't forget, concrete can disintegrate after a few rounds :D
    -Ryan

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C9H13NO3 View Post
    Don't forget, concrete can disintegrate after a few rounds :D
    That is why I said "Thick"
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    I wonder if 2 1/4" thick plates with a little air between them would be more effective than a single 1/2" plate...like maybe the bullet would deform though the first one and not have enough penetrating power to make it through the second one.
    -Ryan

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    I have punched through 5/16th plate with 7.62x39 at 100m, it will depend on the quality of steel as well. Cinderblock walls will generally not do well either.

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    22-250, 55 soft point vs 5/8 I beam, well it drilled right through it.

    It was fairly close for distance if i remember.


    Z
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

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    Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
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    I have seen .308 rounds penetrate 6”-8” concrete walls at 50 yards.

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    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    Just when you think you've got cover, rethink it again and either stay put or shoot on the move.

    Many an Iragi or Taliban thought he had cover behind a large mound of dirt only to find out that some smart soldier would lock into his position when he rose to fire and then hit the dirt with a few rounds in the the marked location. They never came up again to fire their rifles.
    Perhaps your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    That's why the LA bank robbery shootout was so devastating and people thought banning assault rifles was a good thing,they were armed with illegally converted AK's and were shooting armor piercing rounds,some of the ammo wasn't but it went right thru cars and walls that cops were trying to hide behind.bullet proof vests were no match and the footage on TV scared the crap out of people when they saw the cops that are suppose to be able to protect them pinned down and helpless.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    All it did was prove that there is no future in bringing pistols to a rifle fight.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    All it did was prove that there is no future in bringing pistols to a rifle fight.
    Yep and then they whined about having to issue officers patrol carbines which they should of had in the first place and the shootout woulda been over in seconds
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    That's why the LA bank robbery shootout was so devastating and people thought banning assault rifles was a good thing,they were armed with illegally converted AK's and were shooting armor piercing rounds,some of the ammo wasn't but it went right thru cars and walls that cops were trying to hide behind.bullet proof vests were no match and the footage on TV scared the crap out of people when they saw the cops that are suppose to be able to protect them pinned down and helpless.
    7.62x39 uses a steel core which punches through most body armour nicely, as does 7.62x25, a favorite with Asian gangs in Hong Kong.

  13. #13
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    The 7.62X39 Norinco ammo used to be steel core also. Steel core ammo is no longer legal in this country, and hasn't been for about 15 yrs. The old Norinco ammo would shoot through 2" steel plate out to about 50 yds.
    Y'all be safe now, ya hear!

    The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carver View Post
    The 7.62X39 Norinco ammo used to be steel core also. Steel core ammo is no longer legal in this country, and hasn't been for about 15 yrs. The old Norinco ammo would shoot through 2" steel plate out to about 50 yds.
    Legal to make or use. I question that because most mil surp imported ammo is steel core, including Wolf.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  15. #15
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    Steel core ammo is no longer legal in this country, and hasn't been for about 15 yrs.
    It is legal, and as noted lot of steel core Milsurp ammo is still imported.

    Its the HANGUN rounds that were made illegal because they were considered armor piercing.

    That didnt affect rifle ammo.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
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