Green Ammo?? Tree Huggers Strike Again

This is a discussion on Green Ammo?? Tree Huggers Strike Again within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by bmcgilvray Environmentalism is not about saving the environment at all but all about about political control. It warps and twists every issue ...

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Thread: Green Ammo?? Tree Huggers Strike Again

  1. #31
    Member Array IssaquahWA19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Environmentalism is not about saving the environment at all but all about about political control. It warps and twists every issue with which it comes in contact and costs American consumers piles of money unnecessarily. I don't want to trash the environment but I loathe anything to do with the hokey green movement and the ignorant who follow it as a religion. This green ammo business is about making it difficult for firearms ownership.
    LEt me think here of a few things that come to mind in terms of just how much BS the green movement is...

    Toyota Prius, Spiral Florescent bulbs, California's MTBE gas additive, E85, Wind turbines just to name a few that were brought on by the quacks only for them to come back and say oh gee this stuff is horrible but hey we have something else for you to buy! I love the environment I do not care for the idiots that run most of the green movements.

    Of course this is just my dumb opinion

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  3. #32
    Member Array samh's Avatar
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    Lead ban

    From Bassfan.com BassFan.com
    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    Lead ban counfounds industry 3/16/2009
    A recent action by the Obama administration has left anglers and the fishing industry scratching their heads. Last week, the National Park Service (NPS) suddenly announced it would ban lead fishing tackle in national parks by 2010.

    The American Sportfishing Association (ASA) weighed on in the controversy with a widely distributed statement. "The sportfishing industry is surprised and dismayed by the March 10 announcement made by the National Park Service," said ASA VP Gordon Robertson. "Their intention to eliminate the use of lead in fishing tackle in national parks was made without prior consultation of the sportfishing industry or the millions of recreational anglers who fish within the national park system."

    Robertson added: "In his Jan. 21, 2009 Executive Memo to federal agency and department heads, President Obama made it very clear that he expects the federal government to be transparent, participatory and collaborative and that 'executive departments and agencies should offer Americans increased opportunities to participate in policymaking and to provide their government with the benefits of their collective expertise and information.' We expect the National Park Service to follow the President's order."

    In the normal course of events, the sportfishing and shooting-sports industries (lead component ammunition is also included in the ban) would have been notified by the NPS about this change in policy and would have been invited to discuss this decision with NPS staff, the ASA noted.

    Robertson also said: "The NPS policy announcement, issued by a press release, does not explain how this decision was reached, why it may be necessary or how this rule will be implemented. To our knowledge, there has been no proposed rule, nor any opportunity for public comment. We request that the NPS withdraw this proposal and discuss the rationale for it with the appropriate stakeholders before taking further action."
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  4. #33
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    CCW permit holder for Idaho, Utah, Pennsylvania, Maine and New Hampshire. I can carry in your country but not my own.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samh View Post
    From Bassfan.com BassFan.com
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    "In his Jan. 21, 2009 Executive Memo to federal agency and department heads, President Obama made it very clear that he expects the federal government to be transparent, participatory and collaborative and that 'executive departments and agencies should offer Americans increased opportunities to participate in policymaking and to provide their government with the benefits of their collective expertise and information.' We expect the National Park Service to follow the President's order."

    In the normal course of events, the sportfishing and shooting-sports industries (lead component ammunition is also included in the ban) would have been notified by the NPS about this change in policy and would have been invited to discuss this decision with NPS staff, the ASA noted.

    Robertson also said: "The NPS policy announcement, issued by a press release, does not explain how this decision was reached, why it may be necessary or how this rule will be implemented. To our knowledge, there has been no proposed rule, nor any opportunity for public comment."
    There has been so much transparency, collaboration and participation in the last 2 months, that I am really surprised by this.

    Sarcasm off...
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  6. #35
    Member Array Balsac's Avatar
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    unbelievable.
    "Life is like a box of chocolate... You never know who you are going to shoot."

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  7. #36
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    We had to stop using lead shot when hunting waterfowl for 2 decades now.
    Thank God I still have lead shot.

    No, the "green" shotgun loads do not, in my expirience, work as well. The have less power and terminal effectiveness.

    Biker

  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    I agree this is mostly just envyro-hog-wash. Contamination from bullets is minuscule when compared to contamination from the US Government, mine run off, or industry.

    The greenest thing you can do is have as few children as possible (like zero or one). Better yet, adopt!

    My range sifts through the sand every 5 years to pull a fair amount of the lead out of the berms and recycles it for a profit...$$$

  9. #38
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    What if?

    Quote Originally Posted by nutz4utwo View Post
    I agree this is mostly just envyro-hog-wash. Contamination from bullets is minuscule when compared to contamination from the US Government, mine run off, or industry.

    The greenest thing you can do is have as few children as possible (like zero or one). Better yet, adopt!

    My range sifts through the sand every 5 years to pull a fair amount of the lead out of the berms and recycles it for a profit...$$$
    It is no doubt true that environmental contamination from bullets is minuscule compared to other sources of lead from mining and industrial processes. But, that doesn't mean it should be ignored.

    It is simply not believable to me that our polymer chemists and materials scientists can not rather quickly create a substitute material.

    And yes, the best thing for the environment would be to stop having kids, and bring the earth's population down to about half or less of where it is now.

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array Daddy Warcrimes's Avatar
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    I have to look at KSA 21-4201 (Kansas Statued)
    (8) possessing, manufacturing, causing to be manufactured, selling, offering for sale, lending, purchasing or giving away any cartridge which can be fired by a handgun and which has a plastic-coated bullet that has a core of less than 60% lead by weight.
    (i.e. illegal)

    The typical 'green' replacement for lead is tungsten. If I'm not mistaken (I'd love to read it myself but public law 99-408 eludes my google-fu) tungsten is a big no-no for handguns (good ol cop killer law there).

    Even if we were to allow for tungsten, it has now been linked to childhood leukemia. Any way we go we're still evil.
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  11. #40
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    "No, the "green" shotgun loads do not, in my expirience, work as well. The have less power and terminal effectiveness."


    You are absolutely right Biker. They do not perform as well. The use of steel shot is almost disrespectful to the game hunted. The bismuth is better but doesn't seem to pattern as well.

    They all cost the waterfowler much more than lead shot though.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  12. #41
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    Read The Federal Register

    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    There has been so much transparency, collaboration and participation in the last 2 months, that I am really surprised by this.

    Sarcasm off...
    Proposed Agency rules (such as the Park Service rule being discussed) are almost invariably published in The Federal Register. There is then an open comment period, and there are published responses before a proposed rule becomes a regulation.

    Uncle isn't required to specifically notify anyone beyond the publication in The Federal Register.

    That is the legal process by which rule making occurs. There is plenty of transparency; you just need to be on your toes and do your homework--which none of us do.

    The big corps. of course have armies of clerks and lawyers who get paid to scour these proposals and respond to anything that would affect them. The rest of us are out of luck. It has nothing to do with the administration; just the way things are.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    An issue I can't support. Leave ammo alone. A solution for an unproven problem. Now, fast food, kills millions (including me). More public transportation sounds like a good green idea. ETC, ETC, ETC.

    Will so many real problems, I'm troubled by the focus on a non-issue. The real goal is to damage hunting and firearm rights. Just a PR move by PETA and anti-gun thinking..
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  14. #43
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    green ammo, is that a st.patty's day thing..
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    the world coming too"

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  15. #44
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    Mis dos centavos and appologizing in advance for my rant.

    I am sick of hearing the word "green" when applied to everything. Total BS. Exceptions would be St. Patrick's day and green beer.

    Seems to be this conspiracy to target (no pun intended) ammo in order to further regulate its use. Therefore denying us the right to use it effectively. That is, make it soooooo expensive and extremely unreliable that who could even use it.

    If they want green ammo, I'm headed to Wally World (for my CC walk), purchasing a $2 can of green spray paint and coating the bullets that I have.

    How's that for green?
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  16. #45
    Senior Member Array A1C Lickey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    You guys would poop yourselves if you knew what M855 was being replaced with.


    -B
    I thought that we were only doing that for training on certain ranges.
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