The only weapon designed to kill people...A Sword??

This is a discussion on The only weapon designed to kill people...A Sword?? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; matki Guns were first developed in Europe as seige weapons as dr_cmg stated. They were manufactured by bell makers and only later was iron used ...

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Thread: The only weapon designed to kill people...A Sword??

  1. #16
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    matki

    Guns were first developed in Europe as seige weapons as dr_cmg stated. They were manufactured by bell makers and only later was iron used and handguns evolved.

    Cannon in the Middle Ages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    matki

    Guns were first developed in Europe as seige weapons as dr_cmg stated. They were manufactured by bell makers and only later was iron used and handguns evolved.

    Cannon in the Middle Ages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Emphasis added above.

    To be accurate, it should be:

    In Europe, Guns were first developed...

    Guns were not invented in Europe. They were developed there, far beyond the success they experienced in China. But they originated in China before the 13th century, and were in relatively common use by the 13th century.

    As the wikipedia article you linked to points out, at the time they were called cannons, but they were hand held firearms.

    ETA: If we must use wikipedia entries, here is one which addresses earlier time frames.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_cannon
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    No, not 100% true. Maybe the last 4000 - 6000 years. However you have a chicken or the egg problem (or better yet Makhaira or the Kopis, and other examples, etc).

    It has been 20+ years since I read on the topic, but at least in Europe, early on, after the stone age, you could make a longer edge. So the theory goes the sword started as a specialised bronze / copper / tin long edged spear. However, prior to the combat bow, the sword like weapons were secondary weapon (BUG if you will) to a spear (I think this takes you up to Greek / Roman times periods).

    Now from farming to butchering, sword like blades (think thin cleavers or machetes) were used. Yes, sickles were used to harvest, and axes were used to chop, but there was a place for every type of tool.

    So the tool was used far more often than the weapon.

    It is not proper to state a sword is, "The only weapon designed to kill people..." No more than a spear, axe, or hammer. Now some swords are clearly designed as combat weapons, but then again, some were designed for hunting, fishing, farming, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    ETA: If we must use wikipedia entries, here is one which addresses earlier time frames.

    Hand cannon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    OK.

    The earliest depiction of a gun is a sculpture from a cave in Sichuan dating to the 1100s of a figure carrying a vase-shaped bombard with flames and a cannonball coming out of it. The oldest surviving gun, made of bronze, has been dated to 1288 because it was discovered at a site in modern-day Acheng District where the Yuan Shi records that battles were fought at that time; Li Ting, a military commander of Jurchen descent, led foot-soldiers armed with guns—including a Korean brigade—in battle to suppress the rebellion of the Christian Mongol prince Nayan.
    History of firearms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Neither article indicates the "hand cannon" as the first firearms only that the oldest extant firearm is a hand cannon. The earliest depiction is of "a vase-shaped bombard with flames and a cannonball coming out of it." This sculpture dates from the 1100s.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr_cmg View Post
    OK.



    History of firearms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Neither article indicates the "hand cannon" as the first firearms only that the oldest extant firearm is a hand cannon. The earliest depiction is of "a vase-shaped bombard with flames and a cannonball coming out of it." This sculpture dates from the 1100s.
    That's correct. They were not seige engines/artillery/etc. The Chinese called them cannons, the Europeans renamed them firearms and eventually guns and took credit for their creation.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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