A Tale of two G-17s, a 100 rounds, and a Competition Electronics timer
So what do you have when you shoot 50 rounds through a modified G-17 and have absolutely no problems? You have 50 out of a 1000 rounds fired.
I just got back from the range. I went to compare a G-17 to a G-17. That is, a G-17-3 (3rd generation) with polished trigger works and a 3.5# Glock connector and a G-17-2 (2nd generation) with a modified and polished Glock trigger bar and a Glock 3.5# connector.
Of course the mods are the ones I did over the weekend to see if I could reduce the trigger over-travel, the trigger reset, and even pull weight using only stock Glock parts.
For those that took the enormous amount of time to read my “exposition”, I say that as a bad thing – it was very long, in my Ghost Rocket thread, know that I did a lot of experimenting over the weekend with both the Ghost Rocket connector and implementing the same thing by simply modifying stock Glock parts.
The Ghost Rocket thing didn’t work out so I decided to modify the stock Glock parts and see. Today was “see” day.
My premise is that within reasonable limits for a Self Defense gun, the shorter the trigger pull, and the lighter the trigger pull, the shorter the reset and the smoother the trigger, the faster AND more accurately it can be shot. Let me qualify the short trigger part. The way I modified the trigger actually increases the total trigger pull a bit. But once the shot breaks, there is minimal overtravel and the reset is shorter.
The two guns I compared today are both G-17s, one a 3rd gen and the other a 2nd gen. I’d rather have had two of the same gen. but I didn’t have them so I used what I had.
I shot 100 rounds, 50 through each gun. I fired the first 50 shots at about one shot per second at 18 feet. I actually shot the G-17-3 better than the G-17-2 but the G-17-2 sights were not quite “zeroed” for some reason. But even if they had been, I still shot better and more confidently with the G17-3 and I know exactly why. Even under indoor range's less than ideal or outside lighting conditions, I could see that big ole white dot clearly and quickly – that just instills all kinds of confidence. I struggled to get on the Trijicon front sight. But the bottom line is that I couldn’t really see that the trigger mods helped with accuracy, but trigger effects were more than washed out by the sight differences – the next time they’ll be the same.
I pulled the B-27s in to 9 feet for the rapid fire drills. My goal here was to see how fast I could pull the trigger. I was willing to relax accuracy to focus entirely on speed. However, all the hits from both guns were within the 8 ring and most within the 9 ring.
When I’m doing a test like this, I am always conscious of mental fatigue creeping in and biasing the test. I could either shoot one gun completely and then shoot the other or I could shoot five shot strings and switch guns. The advantage of shooting one gun first is you acclimate a bit to the characteristics of the gun. The disadvantage is you are not as fresh when you shoot the second gun. The advantage of 5 shot strings is that fatigue affects both guns fairly equally. The disadvantage is that you can’t quite acclimate to take advantage of the characteristics of each gun. But, figuring fatigue was the greater effect, I shot 5-shot strings and alternated guns.
After shooting and timing the guns I averaged the split times; added up the total times; and averaged the four fastest shots from each gun. Here’s the results:
Avg split time:__0.1877 _______ 0.1815….difference 0.0062 secs or 3.46%
Total shot time:__ 3.2 _________ 3.38…….difference 0.18 secs or 5.625%
Fastest 4 shots __0.145_______ 0.1575…..difference 0.0125 sec or 8.62%
Fastest four shot splits (secs):
G17-2 --- .14, .14, .14, .15
G17-3 --- .15, .16, .16, .16
Inconclusive, but there is a trend; the modified trigger is a bit faster. But, we should remember that because I kept switching guns every 5 shots, I could not adapt to each gun so the results may be closer than they would be if I could acclimate to each gun.
There is a pretty clear indicator, the fastest four shot splits, that the modified trigger is faster.
One thing I do know, stock Glock sights are fast and sure for me. Not the most accurate, but they are fast and they’ll do for accuracy.
I’m gonna just shoot just the G-17-2 to see if I can acclimate to the trigger and see if the split times decrease. I’ve got another idea I want to try to increase smoothness on the trigger as well as maybe lighten it a bit as a side effect, but I’ve got to order some trigger bars first.
I Thought It Was Interesting
A bit beyond & more "in depth" than the typical "Blah Sameness" of some shooting tests that I've read...for years on end.
I appreciated his awareness of the importance of "shaving off" the maximum amount of micro~time from multiple Self Defense shots at close range. Tangle "gets" it.:yup:
I always believed that the fraction of a second that a defensive shooter is FASTER....spells one possible less "return bullet" coming back in the direction of the Good Guy.:yup:
That could be extremely important.
You keep it up Tangle. You get my thumbs up.