February 26th, 2006 10:16 PM
Actually I've seen what I now will call Ayoob's method in use - it works just fine but it seems a tad slower to me. But it does work, and it has the advantage of working better when the gun's fired quite a few rounds already and the cases are sticking.
Originally Posted by rocky
The thing is, even if you do it the "Spiderman" way, I typically bring it to my belly button and tilt the gun so gravity can help me. Ayoob's method is not so different and I can see the thinking behind it... it is more "idiot proof".
FYI here is the reason I refer to it as the "Spiderman" method:
Notice the shape the web shooting hand makes.
February 26th, 2006 10:21 PM
Part Of My Decision
Part of my decision back then was due to a serious physical injury to my left (non gun hand)
I've make a pretty doggone remarkable recovery with that hand through intensive therapy, hard work, & finger & hand strengthening exercises. (QKShooter Pats Himself On Back) ~ I busted a mess of bones in that hand, forearm, & wrist & then went through a botched repair surgery.
I'm still missing three knuckles on that hand. Where dahell did they go?
Anyway...that sure did increase my own personal "fumble factor" for a very LONG time (over 2 years) & was very instrumental in me deciding to make that past "total switch over" to .45 Auto.
February 26th, 2006 10:22 PM
Ah, interesting Chris, I wasn't aware of that fact.
Thanks again amigo.
"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper
"Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."
February 26th, 2006 10:27 PM
Oh QK I'm sorry to hear that, because there but for the Grace of God go I.
Originally Posted by QKShooter
I have broken fingers, smashed the ends off, put a drill bit through my hand, cut myself, burnt myself... all on my hands! It all started when I was about 12 or so and gave myself a truly massive spiral fracture that went all the way to my wrist! The docs thought I'd need surgery to ever use that finger again... it still doesn't feel like its counterpart on the right hand, but I didn't lose any motion or much feeling in it.
It is truly a miracle I am not missing a finger(s) or paralyzed in a finger beyond a couple of spots that lack most of the feeling in them.
Part of it is because I have got some thick old fingers boy, let me tell ya, but it's largely luck. I did an awful lot of "character building" labor and it wreaked havoc on my fingers. I am very fortunate that the scars have healed... it took 5 years for the drill bit wound to dissappear completely.
I can certainly appreciate a wheelgun not being very workable if you don't have full articulation, because that was nearly me!
FYI I have two hollow places on my left hand where my knuckles should protrude and don't, and my left ring finger is appreciably shorter than the right one!
February 26th, 2006 10:42 PM
Sorry To Hear About That
I sure can relate to it. Can I ever!
Glad that you're OK.
Looking on the bright side of my injury - it (obviously) forced me to quit that job & then (from that point forward) my life "took off" in a much more productive & incredibly happier direction.
Some things DO happen for a reason I guess.
February 26th, 2006 10:47 PM
Most of the ways i reload have all ready been covered course i switch the wheelie to my right hand to reload
February 26th, 2006 11:26 PM
I love revolvers. I recently went to the Snubby Summit in Titusvile, FL. Ayoob, DeBethencourt, Cirillo, Southnarc, and many others... It was incredible.
Mike "BoBo" DeBethancourt was teaching his manual of arms, which includes weak hand reloads.
Lets see if I can describe it (assuming right-handed shooter).
First your right thumb moves up over the hammer (or backstrap of a Centennial) and the left thumb opens the cylinder. Your right index finger pokes the cylinder through, while gun remains in your right hand. The index finger stays through the frame and holds the cylinder from rotating. You then rotate your wrist so the cylinder side is up, then bend your elbow to bring the gun up close to your head, so the barrel is straight up. Strike the ejector forcefully with you left hand. Then drop the gun down and index on your abdomen with barrel down. Load with the left hand.
Part of the system is the importance of keeping the gun running and in the fight. You load starting at the charge hole at the 9:00 position, and go against the direction of rotation to fill.
The cool thing about having your index finger through the cylinder is that you leave it there as you close up the gun and as it pushes out, the round you loaded in the 9:00 position winds up in the next to fire position. You have to try it -- it works.
You then close up the gun with the left hand, and keep shooting.
I have probably done a terrible job of explaining it, and I only had about 2 hours of instruction in it, so I am no expert. What I liked about it is that DeBethancourt had an explanation for every step and why you do what you do.
Some will say that its too hard to load with the left hand. Its not really, with practice. There are a lot of reasons to keep the gun in your strong hand, not the least of which is that it gives you a better chance of retaining it in a struggle or using it as an impact weapon if you don't get to fully reload.
DeBethancourt prefers speed-strips for most applications since you can reload 1-6 rounds as needed.
I still use the Ayoob type method because it is so engrained in me, but there are other methods out there worthy of consideration.
February 27th, 2006 07:59 AM
Great addition Thanks!
"Part of the system is the importance of keeping the gun running and in the fight. You load starting at the charge hole at the 9:00 position, and go against the direction of rotation to fill."
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
February 27th, 2006 08:36 AM
That's what you get for trying to reload a revolver fast!
Originally Posted by Euclidean
I think I've posted this before, but it's been a while. I took a 686 revolver to Gunsite for the Advanced Tactics Pistol course. I worked really hard three weeks before the course, at least twice a week focusing primarily on speed reloads.
I used my Competition Electronics timer to time a shot, reload, fire the next shot. A six second reload was reliable, a five second reload was iffy. I used Safariland speed loaders at Gunsite's recommendation; you need not tell me how fast HKS loaders are I started with them. Some could probably do faster and better reloads, but from what I hear and read, I'm about on par time wise.
The method I use is release the cylinder with the shooting hand and use the support hand to push the cylinder out. The gun is turned muzzle up and the thumb of the support hand rams the ejector rod to eject the cases as the shooting hand goes for the speed loader. The support hand holds the gun and the cylinder and rotates the muzzle nearly straight down and in tight to the body as the shooting hand brings the speed loader into position. I line up two rounds on two chambers and push (that only works for Safariland speed loaders). I immediately drop the speed loader and close the cylinder.
That even sounds complicated. When I got to Gunsite, and the "pressure" was on, I found it increasingly difficult to do consistent speed reloads. I was good at them, but numerous things went wrong as well.
Speaking of things going wrong. A time or two, one case wouldn't drop out. Add at least 2 seconds. Every now an then the cylinder and rounds didn't line up intially, so you've got to adjust the speed loader, add up to a second for that. Once I got the speed loader canted a bit and the rounds bound in the speed loader but I didn't realize it, I was worried about the threat. When I threw down the speed loader the rounds went with it. My mistake, but under increasing pressure and more complicated operations...
When we did the Marine and Sky Marshal qualification drills, I had no trouble with the shooting, but the drills required one reload and I always lost so much time in the reload that I couldn't make the drill time. My fellow students with semis had no trouble making the times.
Before you get to thinking I'm just slow, consider that the very best you are likely to do is 4 seconds if you're really practiced up and you don't muff the reload, and everything goes just right. Just for comparison, it's pretty easy to do a 2 sec. semi reload.
But, I BEG YOU, DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR THIS, get a timer, time yourself on ten speed reloads. Start cold, just like you'd have to in a gunfight, i.e. no warm-ups. Count every reload, muffs and all. Keep track of the reload time for each reload. Just fire a shot, speed reload, fire a shot and see what the time between shots is. Go do it, what have you got to lose?
In every drill that involved a reload, the semi guys were done shooting, reloaded, and waiting on me. Time after time after time. Then at the end of the week, and this is gonna make me sound like a klutz, a fellow student said, "I'm impressed with how well he [me] could handle and shoot a revolver, but they seem too complicated."
Go time 10 revolver reloads. Ten because I believe that out of those ten you'll have at least one muff or you're doin' 6 second reloads.
Before you stake your life on a revolver reload, go time at least 10 reloads. Prove me wrong. I like revolvers, I just don't trust reloads. Now if you can do 10 speed reloads, cold just like you would have to in a gunfight, and you can make even 5 seconds RELIABLY, then consider this. That's 3 seconds slower than a semi reload. Imagine doing a semi speed reload and then waiting an additional 3 seconds to fire in a gunfight.
Go try it. Prove me wrong.
February 27th, 2006 10:59 AM
Thanks For Your Input Tangle
Yours was an extremely valuable real world "stress level up" post.
I have found that the one "one case" that refuses to GO along and cooperate with its buddies has messed me up on occasions.
and for me things get even tougher with a J~Frame AKA "too much hand and not enough revolver"
February 27th, 2006 12:00 PM
LOL! Yep that's certainly a prob.!
Originally Posted by QKShooter
Edited to add:
Then do ten reloads in the dark, while using a handheld flash light.
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