Should Full Auto's Be Legal? - Page 5

Should Full Auto's Be Legal?

This is a discussion on Should Full Auto's Be Legal? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by TerriLi I think the major issue here is, where do we draw the line on 2A? The line has been drawn, and ...

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  1. #61
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerriLi View Post
    I think the major issue here is, where do we draw the line on 2A?
    The line has been drawn, and an arbitrary, movable line jerked into nonexistence by political whimsy ain't it. It's there for the reasons folks have indicated. It is indeed a serious, slippery slope, if fooled with.
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  2. #62
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Wait a minute, TerriLi, I thought you didn't know what overkill means? : )

  3. #63
    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by United93 View Post
    Wait a minute, TerriLi, I thought you didn't know what overkill means? : )
    I dont, Overkill really doesnt make sense to me as a definable word. How can one Overkill something till it is killed after that, you're not killing it.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

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  4. #64
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    For example, I think my state, MI, has clearly regulated to the point of prohibition (when it comes to auto / burst-fire), and I think that is wrong (but not yet an infringement of 2A). Honestly, I think MI is a good example of a state that has regulated to the point that any further and you would infringe on 2A.
    What fantasy are you living in? Michigan allow automatic weapons with no more restrictions than federal law. If you file a Form 4 you are complying with federal law and can possess a pre 86 automatic weapon (machine gun). What am I missing here?
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  5. #65
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    I think it would make sense, politically, to push for elimination of the National Firearms Act. That would put the "assault guns ban" people on the defensive, trying merely to retain the territory they've already gained. It is my personal opinion that the NFA is unconstitutional anyway. When that issue went to the Supremes, they ruled that it was ok because it's only a tax/revenue provision, and the U.S. has the powers "necessary" to support those powers that the U.S. does have.

    My view is that traditional canons of construction require that any amendment will control any provision to the contrary in the document amended. And because the Second Amendment is an amendment, it takes precedence over everything in the original version. Including the "necessary and proper" clause. And since the word is not "abolish", but "infringe", Congress cannot enact any restrictions on gun ownership or possession in any way. And any attempt to do so is void as an "ultra vires" act, i.e., beyond and outside of the scope of their power. So, as to the U.S., a person ought to be able to have tactical nukes if he wants to.

    But, since the Second never applied to the states (and still doesn't despite recent dicta by the Ninth Circuit), each state has the power to govern itself with respect to such matters. If Maryland, for example, wants to be a pro-crime state by restricting one's ability to defend himself and his family, that's their business. Those who don't like the way Maryland does things can move out, or vote for change, or run for office.

    So I'm in favor of (1) a constitutional amendment making treaty obligations subordinate to the Constitution; and (2) abolition of the NFA.
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  6. #66
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubby45 View Post
    What fantasy are you living in? Michigan allow automatic weapons with no more restrictions than federal law. If you file a Form 4 you are complying with federal law and can possess a pre 86 automatic weapon (machine gun). What am I missing here?
    That is the problem in my view. That is what makes the cost so prohibitive, at least for me.
    Besides, just look how much more tax revenue the gov would get if it wasn't limited to pre '86 weapons.



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  7. #67
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    It would be fun to shoot but that's a lot of extra slugs flying around. I would vote no.

  8. #68
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    If it's not legal already in your state, then no. But I don't advocate loosing rights. First these go then our civil ones go. Its a bad chain.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by obxned View Post
    There should be NO restrictions on any citizen owning one. The Bill of Rights intended us to be armed well enough to defend our country against foreign invaders equipped with the latest small arms, and to be able to prevent our own government from becoming tyrannical, or to replace a tyrannical government with a legitimate one.
    That right there is the correct answer. The RKBA is not limited to individual self defense, defense of family, defense of home, etc. any more than it is limited to sporting/hunting uses. The RKBA is a very broad right, with a foundation based on all of the above, plus the ability to defense the state/nation when necessary (as the Minutemen did) or to defend against tyranny if an when that goblin raises its ugly head. Why do you think Hitler moved very early on to prohibit private ownership of arms?

    Moreover, although the RKBA is neither created by nor dependent on the 2nd Amendment, it is unequivocal that the framers intent included that the people be sufficiently well-armed to defend the state and to throw off tyranny when the need arose. For that to be a practical reality, the protection of the 2A cannot logically be read to mean anything else than that individual citizens' RKBA--including military-grade arms--is protected.

  10. #70
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obxned View Post
    There should be NO restrictions on any citizen owning one. The Bill of Rights intended us to be armed well enough to defend our country against foreign invaders equipped with the latest small arms, and to be able to prevent our own government from becoming tyrannical, or to replace a tyrannical government with a legitimate one.
    obxned, I understand your POV, but IMO you are missing something big. Being armed is not enough. The military does not solely rely on its weapons. TRAINING is essential to the propper and effective use of any weapon. If you think simply arming yourself with an M2 Browning is going to enable you to defeat trained soldiers, whether our own or another country's, think again.

  11. #71
    Senior Member Array Duisburg's Avatar
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    I'll add another thought:

    Beyond spray and pray defensive use and beyond what it MIGHT do to the crime rate...

    Machine guns are just fun. That is IT => Fun and who doesn't have a "Fun gun" that they take out and have fun with? I have many and I would love for the 1986 laws to be repealed so that new and imported machine guns could once again be had for the citizen.

    I am tired of the enormous prices for machine guns today because they are so few and the demand keeps going up. Flemming sears cost more than gold. A good MP5 goes for around $9000 whereas new MP5s for the local sherrif cost $1500. I'd love to see newer guns enter the legal machine gun market.
    I am sworn to protect the Constitution of the U.S.A. from all threats both foreign and domestic.

  12. #72
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    How I would love to own an H&K G36C or MP5 submachine gun!

    If it were up to me, full auto firearms would be handled like handguns (21 years of age and able to pass the quick background check through NICS).

    For now the only way I'll be able to experience full auto is airsoft guns, which is cool, because today's ammo prices would still have me shooting on semi-auto.
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  13. #73
    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDFender View Post
    .....Moreover, although the RKBA is neither created by nor dependent on the 2nd Amendment ...
    I hope I didn't quote this out of context, but could you explain the above a bit further, I think I'm missing something?

    If the 2nd Amendment isn't about the RKBA, then what is?

  14. #74
    Senior Member Array Duisburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubNine View Post
    For now the only way I'll be able to experience full auto is airsoft guns, which is cool, because today's ammo prices would still have me shooting on semi-auto.
    That is why I only pine after one machine gun

    the American 180

    22lr and has 300 round drum magazine. Pure fun and cheap too!

    I am sworn to protect the Constitution of the U.S.A. from all threats both foreign and domestic.

  15. #75
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    My simple answer to the question is: "Yes". Any citizen should be able to legally own a fully automatic weapon. I don't think the 2nd Ammendment differentiates between modes of fire any more than it does caliber.

    That being said, I don't think most people would gain any advantage from utilizing a full auto weapon for self-defense.

    Just my opinion,
    Gonzo
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