I give up...

This is a discussion on I give up... within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by grady You've done all you can do, and it didn't work. Now it's time to back off. You can't force her to ...

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Thread: I give up...

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array ErikGr7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grady View Post
    You've done all you can do, and it didn't work. Now it's time to back off. You can't force her to make a decision, even if it's the right decision, and the harder you try, the more she may dig in her heels.

    Resign yourself to the fact that she has chosen to not be prepared, and she may be stubbornly resisting your advice just because.

    You can't make decisions for her, especially when you are not around. If there is an event, and she survives, perhaps she'll listen to you then.

    This will sound cold, but if she doesn't survive, or is injured, realize it was her decision to ignore your advice.
    Grady, is wise..

    You may have to just realize that some people choose
    to not be armed. The best you can do is protect her when
    you are near.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    She may also be one of those who cannot deal with the reality that bad things can happen to anyone at anytime. She probably feels that if she ignores it long enough, it will go away.

    I have dealt with people like that and unfortunately it usually takes a situation where it hits close to home for them to wake up and smell the coffee.
    "A Smith & Wesson always beats 4 aces!"

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  4. #18
    Member Array Ed4032's Avatar
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    I find that it is much easier to control the wind and rain than my wife mind. But I do get blamed for the bad weather.

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    We talked this morning, and as PPK said she gets complacent and expects me to be her eyes and ears all the time... so when I'm not there, she doesn't think about it.

    She says she feels safe when I'm around because I always have the radar on, and since I've been gone off and on for 2 months, she has been a little more aware of noises when she is home alone.

    So maybe it'll take a few weeks of me not being there to get her to pay attention more.

    But over all, I'm just gonna let it go and hope that nothing happens, and if it does, as Grady said... she'll have to learn the hard way.

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array fotomaker57's Avatar
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    Good advice given here so far. Let it go and let her tell you if and when she is ready. My wife also will not carry. She was a cop for 14 years. She knows what evil lurks out there but still will not carry. She keeps chemical protection close but that is as far she goes. She has seen too many times the aftermath of people using a weapon on others and on themselves. She has chosen to leave her safety in God's hands and mine. I can deal with that and hope you can learn to do the same.
    Mike
    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
    Thomas Jefferson

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    There are some people......even those that we love, that simply are not well suited to carry a gun, or even to rely on one for personal defense in the home. That's ok. But we need to ensure that they understand and practice the more passive forms of self-protection......locking the doors, setting the alarm, a high degree of situational awareness, etc....

    Sometimes all you can do is to do all you can do.......
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

    Theodore Roosevelt

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array AllAmerican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Lay off for awhile. This says it all:



    You will not win. You cannot win. Stop before you destroy your marriage.

    After an appropriate "cooling off", you may gently begin opening the conversation again.

    Until then, you're just looking for a cold relationship and extra couch time.

    Sorry I'm such a realist. I've just been around too many women.
    That is just good advice right there...
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  9. #23
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Here's my advice, bear in mind I'm married and want to stay that way.

    Lay off the issue of guns, badguys and what not. If she chooses to be more proactive in providing for her safety, great. If not, just accept the fact that you married a woman that may not be as prepared as you would like and then pray that nothing happens.

    It sounds to me like you are forcing the issue, and this is driving her away. It's like the old saying, "You can lead a horse to water............
    I think you know the rest.

    Biker

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array ASSA9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikGr7 View Post
    Grady, is wise..

    You may have to just realize that some people choose
    to not be armed. The best you can do is protect her when
    you are near.
    +2 Grady IS wise
    Carrying a gun is a personal decision , you've made yours
    and she has made hers
    Just let it go friend.
    Zoe: "Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?

    Book: "Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps."

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    Looks like most everything has been said already. But....

    Some of us just don't like the idea that we may end up killing someone. It may be very contrary to the image she's always held of herself, or of the ideal woman she feels she is, or would like to be. Or maybe she would be capable of killing in SD, but fears the aftermath - emotional, physical, social, legal, etc. (And yes, I know the counter-arguments.)

    Your protecting her allows her to not have to face these things. Your protecting her allows her to continue to believe that she doesn't have to change, doesn't have to rethink her world, doesn't have to be responsible for something she doesn't want to be -- or wishes she didn't have to be.

    I'm not saying don't protect her, but this seems something similar to "enabling" someone to continue to be counterproductive.

    I never carried, never even owned a gun, until I left my husband and moved myself and my kids to a borderline apartment complex.

    Edit: Something has to change for that light switch to go on. You haven't managed it, and she hasn't either. As others have said, it may take something or someone from the outside to do it. And you can't do that for her - not in any way she'd forgive you for afterwards.

    Best wishes to you both.
    Last edited by gilraen; May 5th, 2009 at 02:32 PM. Reason: nitpicky word changes
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilraen View Post
    Looks like most everything has been said already. But....

    Some of us just don't like the idea that we may end up killing someone. It may be very contrary to the image she's always held of herself, of of the ideal woman she feels she is, or would like to be. Or maybe she would be capable of killing in SD, but fears the aftermath - emotional, physical, social, legal, etc. (And yes, I know the counter-arguments.)

    Your protecting her allows her to not have to face these things. Your protecting her allows her to continue to believe that she doesn't have to change, doesn't have to rethink her world, doesn't have to be responsible for something she doesn't want to be -- or wishes she didn't have to be.

    I'm not saying don't protect her, but this seems something similar to "enabling" someone to continue to be counterproductive.

    I never carried, never even owned a gun, until I left my husband and moved myself and my kids to a borderline apartment complex.

    Edit: Something has to change for that light switch to go on. You haven't managed it, and she hasn't either. As others have said, it may take something or someone from the outside to do it. And you can't do it for her - not in any way she'd forgive you for afterwards.

    Best wishes to you both.
    Excellent post, I think you nailed it for the most part.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Any small amount of wisdom I may have gained on this subject is the result of decades of trying the same thing with my wife... and failing.

    A good day is when I come home and don't find the front ground-level windows open with the alarm off, or don't find the basement door wide open, with my wife and daughter doing something in other remote parts of the house.

    A great day is when she actually has the alarm on. Rare, but it happens occasionally. And these instances are increasing slightly in frequency, so there is hope.

    Logic may work with some, showing love and concern may work for others, but my wife's greatest improvements only come after heated outbursts from me when she has done something incredibly unsafe and... not smart.

    Pro2A, I understand where you are coming from. Unfortunately, I understand from first-hand experience. My battle plan is to be inflexible in my own preparations, never compromising my family's safety because of her failure to acknowledge the threat, and also to try and make it easy for her to use the safety measures I added to our house. This involved installing a user-friendly higher-end security system, one that covers every entrance point of our house, and using it consistently myself. I find that when I use it consistently, sometimes she seems to go into a default mode and will use it herself now without even thinking about it, whereas years ago she wouldn't. It also involved installing deadbolts and peepholes, and making them convenient for her to use.

    As far as your wife going off on her own without any means of protection, even though she says she has gotten lax because you are so safety conscious that she feels safe when you are around, it sounds like her mindset is that the world--correction: her world--isn't that dangerous of a place.

    Keep taking your own precautions. Soon enough there will be examples in her life or around her that will validate your viewpoint, regardless of whether you are actively pointing them out or not.

    One thing I've found is that some of my good habits are slowly being absorbed by my wife. For example, sometimes she will use the alarm when I am not around. I've even found her using our window-open security option (where the window can be opened 6" and the alarm still turned on) without the alarm on, which indicates to me it's starting to become a habit for her to think about and align the 2nd set of contacts. But it takes time to adjust life-long habits and a faulty world view.

    In the meantime, I make sure my daughter is informed of the evils of this world and the actions we can take to prevent/minimize some of the evil. If you have kids, that is where your real influence will come in.

    Don't compromise your values or your family's safety for the sake of peace. I believe your decision to back off from her is the appropriate one at this time, but that doesn't mean you have to lower your defenses in any way.

    A tactic that works well for limiting my wife's objections about my security preparations is while normally I don't bring up the issue, if she objects disrespectfully over some preparation I've done, either verbally or non-verbally (rolls eyes, or says not-quite-under-her-breath "hmmmph"), I'll launch into the why's and why not's of what I'm doing, citing examples and possible consequences that have happened to others. Hey, she initiated the interaction, so I'm certainly entitled to give my rebuttal.

    Here's an example from just the other night: it's Spring now, and time for growing stuff. She put a couple plants in our kitchen window so they could get some sun. My only problem with that was when I went to lower the blinds as night was coming, the blinds could go no lower than 9 inches from the bottom ledge. That meant anyone who came up to our kitchen window at night (we have no dogs to alert us) could see clearly into our kitchen, our dining area, our living room, and a portion of the hall leading to our bedrooms, and observe us for hours if they chose, watching us from behind as we sat in the living room facing away from the kitchen.

    To me, that is a totally unacceptable security risk. I will not be observed in my home by some stranger because we leave the blinds open on a dark night. So I calmly removed the plants to the counter and lowered the blinds. Once she realized what I'd done, she objected at my reasoning. This time my response was pretty short and curt because we've been down this road before, so I just said, "And when I save your ass, you're going to owe me an apology."

    My point is don't lower your standards for anyone, even if it results in an argument. Who's instincts and education are better: one who understands the threat, or one who refuses to acknowledge the threat?

    You don't need my advice. You know what you're doing. But I post in case some newly married guy or gal is going through the same thing we are going through. Maybe someone can glean something from our trials and errors and make their own life a little better or a little safer.

    Stick to your principles. Peace and harmony are good, but not at any price.


    Quote Originally Posted by gilraen View Post
    Some of us just don't like the idea that we may end up killing someone. It may be very contrary to the image she's always held of herself, of of the ideal woman she feels she is, or would like to be...

    ...Best wishes to you both.
    Insightful post, gilraen.

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array gilraen's Avatar
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    I know how frustrating it is to not be able to "shake" someone into seeing the world as we feel they should see it; to see the consequences of their (in)actions. But as we've all learned, it doesn't work.

    It's almost wanting to say "I wish something bad would happen to her/him -- not so bad they don't get over it, but bad enough it scares them into changing, because they will finally see what I see."

    Quote Originally Posted by grady View Post
    You can't make decisions for her, especially when you are not around. If there is an event, and she survives, perhaps she'll listen to you then.

    This will sound cold, but if she doesn't survive, or is injured, realize it was her decision to ignore your advice.
    And that's called Tough Love.
    "I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."

  15. #29
    Distinguished Member Array SubNine's Avatar
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    Gun ownership and carrying a gun is a personal choice, and one that should not be forced upon other people. I know how frustrating it can be to have a loved one refuse to take responsibility for their own safety, but you can't make them. Be patient with your wife, and maybe she will come around. I am not married so I don't have a wife, but my Mother is the same way.
    USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

    I am the God fearing, gun toting, flag waving conservative you were warned about!

  16. #30
    jfl
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    Distinguished Member Array jfl's Avatar
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    Been with my wife 37 happy years; we never have tried to impose anything on each other; we call that RESPECT and we believe it is the basis of our very successful relationship.
    As an example:
    9 years ago, I was stuck in Palm Springs CA for my 60th birthday. The boss had decided to stay a few more days (the fun of being a corporate pilot !!!).
    At the FBO there was an ad "Rent a Harley"; I had sportsbike in my younger years but hadn't been riding for 30 years and never been on a Harley.
    When I returned the bike I had put 240 miles on it and was ecstatic.
    Back home a few days later, I told her enthusiastically about my experience. Her answer was:At your age, if you want a Harley, you should get one now.
    Found one on Ebay; never asked her to ride with me, and one day, several months later, she said "I'd like to ride with you".
    A few years later, for a big b'day she got her own Road King Classic...
    What I am getting at, is that I never ever tried to influence her choices, not even a suggestion.
    RESPECT.
    Pressure does not work.
    At this point, you have created a resistance that only time or a strong emotional event can dissipate.
    You should not try to "control" or impose your views to another human being, even if you are 200% right; it does not work !!!
    As many other have said, don't bring the issue back until she brings it up and then proceed slowly; let her find her way, make her own choices even if you think they are wrong.
    My wife prefer revolvers, I think Glocks are better, we just joke about it. When I am out of town, the .357 is under her pillow and the G-19 is close, but this was her choice, not my recommendation.

    I could go on and on, maybe I already did
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

    jfl
    (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)

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