I dont understand the law! ARRRRGH

I dont understand the law! ARRRRGH

This is a discussion on I dont understand the law! ARRRRGH within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I dont understand the law when it comes to owning a handgun between the ages of 18-21. From what I can tell, I can own ...

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Thread: I dont understand the law! ARRRRGH

  1. #1
    Member Array zdinnd's Avatar
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    Arrow I dont understand the law! ARRRRGH

    I dont understand the law when it comes to owning a handgun between the ages of 18-21.

    From what I can tell, I can own one however I cannot buy it from a dealer. I can carry one if I have a permit in the right state (which I do). I can buy one in private sale, if I am not a prohibited person (Im not) and nowhere in the definition of prohibited person does it mention age. Although I dont know how this applies with out of state FFL transfers.

    What on earth is going on?

    My main question is. Can I buy a handgun in private sale by way of an FFL transfer between states. I am 20, I am not a prohibited person, I'm reserve Military, and I poses a valid conceal carry permit. For the state I live in and it has reciprocity for the state I go to school in.
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    You answered your own question, you cannot buy from a dealer. Any out of state transfer would have to go through a dealer, which would preclude you from the transaction.
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
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  3. #3
    Member Array Dakota97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zdinnd View Post
    I dont understand the law when it comes to owning a handgun between the ages of 18-21.

    From what I can tell, I can own one however I cannot buy it from a dealer. I can carry one if I have a permit in the right state (which I do). I can buy one in private sale, if I am not a prohibited person (Im not) and nowhere in the definition of prohibited person does it mention age. Although I dont know how this applies with out of state FFL transfers.

    What on earth is going on?

    My main question is. Can I buy a handgun in private sale by way of an FFL transfer between states. I am 20, I am not a prohibited person, I'm reserve Military, and I poses a valid conceal carry permit. For the state I live in and it has reciprocity for the state I go to school in.
    Unfortunately the answer is no. When the FFL becomes involved, the age of 21 comes into play. You would have to show ID that you are 21 before the FFL could legally release the weapon to you. State permits or reciprocity will not help as the age of 21 is a federal requirement.
    NRA life member.

  4. #4
    Member Array zdinnd's Avatar
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    oh well, atleast the mystery has been resolved! I guess I gatta wait 4 more months

    Thanks for the help!
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Array GreyGhost's Avatar
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    Makes a whole lot of sense doesn't it! You are old enough to help decide who will be President. You can go kill people for your government since you are in the Reserves. You can even get a concealed carry permit. But you can't go buy a gun from a dealer or even have a beer!

    Jusy in case you haven't figured it out yet, nobody understands the law! Not even the people who make them!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array TucAzRider's Avatar
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    We need to get back to the Constitution.... I bought my first gun at age 12,.. By myself, front a local gun dealer,. I paid $5-10 a week from working, and the total was $81 and change,. Times have changed,... . Crazy stuff there..

  7. #7
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    One is State Law (concealed carry) the other is Federal law (interstate commerce and firearms transactions)

    Two different set of laws, two different jurisdictions.

    How about drinking on some military bases (Federal reservation = Federal laws) at 18, but have to be 21 to drink in town (State Laws)!
    21 years and 21 days, United States Marine Corps.

    The line of hard men willing to rain violence on our enemies so you can sleep warmly and safely in your bed at night continues. That's what we do. Semper fi.

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  8. #8
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I don't understand the law! ARRRRGH!
    A lot of laws have been made for the sole purpose of keeping the population confused anyway. There will always be easy ways for them to get you even if you make a point of being a law abiding citizen in general.

  9. #9
    Member Array zdinnd's Avatar
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    So what else Im getting is that it is legal to make a face to face deal because their is no dealer interaction.....

    What a pain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zdinnd View Post
    So what else Im getting is that it is legal to make a face to face deal because their is no dealer interaction.....

    What a pain.
    Actually the info already given is not complete. You can purchase a long gun through a dealer (FFL) at 18, but you cannot purchase a handgun or receiver or any other kind of gun until 21. The age for handgun purchace through an FFL is a federal regulation, but age for handgun ownership is a state regulation. If the state allows 18 year olds to own handguns they may receive them as gifts or buy them from an individual.
    George

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

  11. #11
    Member Array zdinnd's Avatar
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    thats a little screwy. Thanks alot!
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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    But then a straw purchase would be illegal. You can't have someone go buy a gun from an FFL with the intention of giving/selling it to you.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    A lot of laws have been made for the sole purpose of keeping the population confused anyway. There will always be easy ways for them to get you even if you make a point of being a law abiding citizen in general.
    That's what keeps lawyers in business. It would be nice if the laws were the same in all states.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    But then a straw purchase would be illegal. You can't have someone go buy a gun from an FFL with the intention of giving/selling it to you.
    (B14) May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?

    Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles generally may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(x)]
    ATF Online - Firearms FAQs

    Although the statement specifically addresses those under 18 the answer is true for those between 18 & 21 as well. No mention was made of having someone purchase the firearm for the purpose of giving or selling it to an under age person. The statement was: "If the state allows 18 year olds to own handguns they may receive them as gifts or buy them from an individual." A parent may buy a handgun and give it to an 18 year old child if the state allows 18 year olds to own handguns. The parent may legally and truthfully answer "yes" to question 11.a. on the 4473. If the state allows 18 year olds to own handguns an 18 year old may purchase a handgun from an individual provided the transaction is int the state in question and both parties are residents of that state. No straw purchase has taken place under either option.

    A straw purchase involves illegal intent. The person purchasing the gun is not the real purchaser. Question 11.a. on the 4473 reads as follows:
    Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you.
    The instructions for 11.a. are:
    Actual Transferee/Buyer: For the purpose of this form, you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party. ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER of the firarm and must answer "NO" to question 11.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer "YES" to question 11.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. 922(g), (n), or (x). Please note: EXCEPTION: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not requried to answer 11.a. and my proceed to question 11.b.
    George

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array thebigdl86's Avatar
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    I think its bs. You can carry and own, but cant buy a gun? My wife has her carry permit and carrys daily but cant buy her own ammo!
    "Anyone worth shooting, is probably worth shooting several times."

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