45acp - Big & Slow and Small & Fast!
This is a discussion on 45acp - Big & Slow and Small & Fast! within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; A few years ago, before I really had a basic understanding of handgun loads, I had the misconception that 45acp was Big & Slow and ...
June 8th, 2009 11:07 PM
45acp - Big & Slow and Small & Fast!
A few years ago, before I really had a basic understanding of handgun loads, I had the misconception that 45acp was Big & Slow and that the other calbers 40/9mm were Small & Fast, and thus each had their respective advantages and disadvantages, and one was forced to make a decision /trade-off no matter which caliber you went with.
However, I've done a reading and looking at numbers, and I know numbers don't tell it all, but since it's all I got - it'll have to do, and what I have found is ....Yes, the 45 can be big/slow with the 200/230loads but it also can be just as small/fast as the 40 with similiar loads in 180 & 165, correct???
For reference this was one of the sites I found to compare similar loads Handguns Ballistic Tables
The 45 is only big/slow when loaded with the bigger bullets. When you down-load it, it just as fast as the 40s, nto too mention bigger! In addition you have that ability to go for the bigger bullets if you wanted. Seems like there really is no trade-off, right? Is there something that I am not getting? Does the 40 or 9 have anything over the 45? I just don't see it, if there is please explain.
Furthermore, I even looked at some 10mm loads vs 45 loads in similar oads/manufacturers and I was shocked that they too are neck and neck in performance. Of course, the real hot 10mm loads I wasn't able to compare because I could not find similar load for the 45.
I think I am starting to understand why the 45 is soo popular. Low pressure with lots of flexibility to up/down load based on need. Thoughts???
June 8th, 2009 11:23 PM
Look at the energy information and not just size and speed of the bullet. Energy is important in knock down power.
June 8th, 2009 11:25 PM
No such animal in handguns. Energy transfer? Yes. Knockdown power? Nope.
Originally Posted by lws380
ďI am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.Ē
- Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004
June 9th, 2009 10:18 AM
There is no such thing as a "perfect" caliber, as well as no guaranteed one shot stopping caliber. Carrying a .45 will do you no good if you can't shoot it well. A person who practices and trains with a 9mm and consistently places their shots where they intend them to go, under pressure, has a much better chance of surviving a shooting situation versus someone who shoots a .45 and scatters their rounds all over the target. Know your limitations, practice with your chosen weapon and don't worry about what the "experts" tell you is the all time greatest caliber is.
June 9th, 2009 10:29 AM
Spoke with wisdom.
Originally Posted by archer51
Iíve come the full circle.
Iíve carried everything from a 45, 357 and today a 9mm Glock 26.
Sure it the chips where down, and I had to defend myself against multi opponents, Iíd prefer my riot shotgun, but itís kind of hard to conceal. So to me, what I want is a reliable pistol with premium +P ammo, along with excellent multi round shot placement.
And that only comes from practicing practicing and when you think you have it down, practice some more. And Iím not talking about shooing holes in a target where you take your time to lineup the pretty sights. Iím talking about drawing and firing against multi target, and only given seconds to do it.
June 9th, 2009 10:45 AM
Practice with what?
Do you have a good source for reasonably priced ammo?
I am now practicing with a pellet gun to save the "good stuff" for actual tactical situations.
June 9th, 2009 11:03 AM
If you want knock down power then your best bet is a 12 ga slug. Otherwise loss of blood or severing key nervous systems are the only alternative. I like big 45s but it's probably more of a macho thing than a better thing. Shot placement and penetration (not over penetration) is still the key.
I carry to protect myself and my loved ones from the BG's. Not to solve societies problems. That said: if more carried the deterrent would only have a positive overall effect on those problems.
June 9th, 2009 11:37 AM
There is no magic bullet, and one-shot-stops are largely a myth. They do occur, but don't bet your life on it. The cops are trained to shoot at least twice, double tap, and keep shooting until the threat is stopped. If that's good enough for police, it is good enough for law abiding citizens.
Big & slow, Vs. small and fast? Age old debate, sometimes emotional. I don't think there is a single "correct" answer. I prefer big and rapid, .45 acp, 200 gr. +P. We are blessed to live in these times when we have many ammo options to chose from (when you can find some). That hasn't always been the case. Stick with quality (US made), factory self defense ammo and you should do fine.
U.S. Navy Veteran '65-'69
Retired Police Detective '71 - '01
NRA Life Member / SAF Member
U.S. Constitution (c) 1791, All Rights Reserved.
June 9th, 2009 12:20 PM
I agree that there is no "perfect" caliber. With that said, I much prefer the .45acp to any other caliber I have tried. I shoot it the best, and believe in the balistics of the caliber. I also agree with the OP about uploading and downloading, I carry 200gr. +P Speer Gold Dot GDHPs. Here are the numbers on them:
Gold Dot Personal Protection - 45 Auto +P
Cartridge: 45acp +P
Bullet Wt: 200gr.
Bullet Type: GDHP
Bullet Coefficient: 0.138
Velocity(in feet per second)
50 yds: 994
100 yds: 930
Energy (in foot pounds)
50 yds: 439
100 yds: 384
Of all the different brands and loads I researched and shot, this was my favorite.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
June 9th, 2009 01:04 PM
I think i have the best of both worlds...I've been shooting 185gr Cor-Bon 45acps...Shoots point of aim at 25 yards and scooting along at about 1100 FPS
To err is human.
To forgive is divine.
Neither of which is Marine Corps policy.
"It's all about shot placement."- David (Slayer of Goliath)
June 9th, 2009 02:20 PM
We do live in challenging times.
Originally Posted by Zsnake
Wally world was out again today.
The range I belong to has a supply for members only. They limit purchased to a couple boxes per member, and it cost a little more, but in today world cost is not the only major issue.
June 9th, 2009 02:40 PM
This is a good read on the subject. This guy works in a busy morgue in Atlanta, and sees many gun shot wounds.
Terminal ballistics as viewed in a morgue
Too light for heavy work, too heavy for light work!
June 9th, 2009 07:41 PM
There is some very nicely hot and fast ammunition out there now for the .45acp but, great ammunition performance strides have also been made for the 9 as well.
June 10th, 2009 01:19 AM
You don't have to shoot only pellets. In fact, shooting pellets instead of your EDC is a big mistake.
Originally Posted by Zsnake
But, the biggest mistake I've seen are those who go to the range every week and blast through 200 rounds. They shoot so fast that their accuracy is horrible and they tell themselves that they need to practice more to get better. Not true.
Better practice makes better groups. And you don't get that by shooting 200 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger.
Instead, buy a 50 yard small-bore target (like the A-7/5 or A-32 here: Official NRA Small Bore Rifle Targets Long Gun Shooting Targets ) and use that for your pistol practice. Score the target in 5-shot groups, 2 groups per bullseye (for a total of 10 shots) at handgun distances. You'll see your groups improve very quickly.
You can move on to double taps and alternating bullseyes on each double-shot (for speed and target acquisition practice). Or do "two on this one" and "one on that one" shot groups.
You'll stop shooting hundreds of rounds per session each week. Instead you'll shoot 50-100 rounds 2X per month. And you'll get better groups because you have to shoot better to get higher "scores."
From there you can choose to move on to steel challenge and IDPA if you think you want to compete.
June 12th, 2009 07:38 AM
Every time this comes up there is always someone that makes the feeble attempt to compre a well placed shot with a 9mm to a misplaced shot of a .45ACP. NOT a valid comparison at all !!!!
With practice there is no reason that one could not shoot a .45 as well as a 9mm, or maybe even better in some cases. A more suitible comparison would be to compare identicaly placed hits. When done this way there really is NO challenge to the superior ability of the .45ACP to "stop the fight".
No wonder why dangerous game ammo is ALWAYS BIG and mostly slow compared to lightweight,small caliber speedsters.
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