Who else should I send my C&R?

This is a discussion on Who else should I send my C&R? within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So far I've sent it to: Tombstone Arms, Aim Surplus, Allan's Armory, Old Town Station, Aztec Inter., Centerfire Systems, Century Arms, Classic Arms, Empire Arms, ...

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Thread: Who else should I send my C&R?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    Who else should I send my C&R?

    So far I've sent it to:

    Tombstone Arms, Aim Surplus, Allan's Armory, Old Town Station, Aztec Inter., Centerfire Systems, Century Arms, Classic Arms, Empire Arms, Enterprise Arms, FGS Inc., Hoosier Gun Works, Inter Ordnace, J&G Sales, L.C. Enterprises, MCS Firearms, Military Gun Supply, SMS Guns, Samco Global Arms, Sarco Inc., Sinclair International, SOG, The Dealer Warehouse, Wholesale Gun Co. Inc., CDNN, Brownells (for the discount) and then Cheaper Than Dirt; The Sportsmans Guide and Discount Distributors (Ammoman) to cover the Ammo paperwork (has my DL on the copy of the FFL also).

    So, any others that you can think of? I have access to a copier so I can make as many copies as I need

    Wayne

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
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    Send it to this place........i can keep my eyes open for good stuff that you might want ..

    http://ktp.com/
    Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll

  4. #3
    New Member Array Phalanx's Avatar
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    Wayne...
    I've just received my C&R today!! I found your post thru "search" and will send mine to the same. My question is: Do you find yourself dealing with a few more than the others, or just pretty much on what you need at the moment?
    Thanks to all for helping me make up my mind about the C&R!
    Phalanx
    "Shooter Ready?"

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    Phalanx,

    I seem to deal mostly with Aimsurplus, SOG and Sarco for guns and Brownells for parts (you get a heck of a discount!).

    All of the others are abit more expensive but have a better selection of hard to find firearms. I get a flyer (and I've forgotten the CO name but it has International in the name, I'll try to remember it) that has alot of Colt SAA's, Lugers, etc.. (great selection) but you can imagine that the prices go with it.

    It all depends on what you are looking for, handguns or rifles. Rifles are realy inexpensive and you will need to buy at least 2 to 3 and then pick out the best one to keep, sell the other two (you are allowed to do this) and then get some more rifles and do the same. As long as you're selling for advancement of your collection and not for profit (you have to be careful on this one, it's a grey area but I take it to mean that if you make 51% of your annual income from selling C&R firearms, then you are in business of dealing in firearms).

    Handguns are alot harder and more expensive to collect. Most new Cufflers start out with the basics, a CZ-52 and a Nagant. Sarco sometimes has the Star Model Super (9mm Largo, not 9mm Luger). If you look around you may find a Balister Molina at a decent price.

    Most of the really sot after handguns, like the Lugers, Colt SAA's and even the Sistema's are either hard to find or expensive (or both). Sometimes you can find a German Mak but in all honesty it's cheaper to get the Polish, Romanian, etc.. Mak (the "modern" maks are around $130 and the C&R Maks are around $400).

    Watch out on Lugers and Broomhandles. While they have a great value you have to watch out for people selling either "shot out" handguns (it's been shot so much that there is little to no rifling left), are in fair condition (very little blueing left, rust flecks or pits, hard wear and tear) that they want exc. prices for or the numbers are mismatched (generally called a lugerstein or mauerstein) and try to sell for original prices).

    Also, some gunshops won't take your C&R because they are either unaware of what a C&R is or are too afraid to do a Dealer to Collector deal. Don't worry about it. If the firearm is something you really want then just do the reg. paperwork/NICS but if you can either do without it or find it in the flyers that you will get, then wait.

    Cosmoline. That great, sticky stuff that every firearm that you purchase (not from places like Tombstone or some of the others, they clean it first) comes completely coated. You may get about 4lbs (or so it seems) of the stuff off a rifle, about 2 lbs out of a handgun. You will need to decide how you are going to get it off. Me, this is what I do:

    Rifle: Hard to do because of the length. I bought a storage tub from wallyworld that would handle all the metal parts including the barrel. You will need something like this. First you completely take the rifle apart (so remember how it disassembled ). Fill the tub with a solution of hot water and I use Purple Stuff. Let it soak for awhile (long while) and then wipe off the cosmo. Get fresh solution and do it all over again until cosmo is gone. I also boil the smaller parts, especially the trigger groups and the bolt which houses the firing pin. You DO NOT want a gummed up bolt, rapid fires are not fun (and they are illegal whether you knew about it or not, this is especially true for SKS's).

    The stock/Furniture is a real pain. The cosmo soaks in the wood and the best that I've found to do is either put the stock into a black bag and then drive around with it in the car for a week (basically, the sunlight melts the cosmo. You will need to take the wood out and wipe it down every other day depending on the heat ratio) or to put it in very hot water. DO NOT use Purple Stuff on wood. It will instantly suck out the cosmo from the wood, and it also sucks out all the stuff out of the wood and then you have a piece of kindling, it ruins it.

    When you put it back together, you will get cosmo seepage from the stock, wood, take a wet towel with you to wipe it down.

    Pistols: Take off the grip, field strip, boil it. These are easy :). After you boil it and the cosmo is gone, put into over at around 350 until dry (about 15/20 min). You will need to lube it very well as all the lube will be gone after you boil / cook it.

    If anyone else has any information, please chime in.

  6. #5
    New Member Array Arty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne View Post

    It all depends on what you are looking for, handguns or rifles. Rifles are realy inexpensive and you will need to buy at least 2 to 3 and then pick out the best one to keep, sell the other two (you are allowed to do this) and then get some more rifles and do the same. As long as you're selling for advancement of your collection and not for profit (you have to be careful on this one, it's a grey area but I take it to mean that if you make 51% of your annual income from selling C&R firearms, then you are in business of dealing in firearms).
    Wayne - Alot of good info in your post, but I would like to respond to the quote above. I do not wish to be argumentative, but many of our fellow collectors in the C&R community would disagree with this advice. As you say, this is a "grey area" and the ATF refuses to give clearer insight into what a "business" is. I have friends who have Class 01 FFLs - they are running a business, but don't make 51% of their income from selling guns ( they may wish they did ) So I don't believe the " 51% rule" is valid.

    Certainly a C&R holder can sell guns from his collection. The thing I think about is that question on the renewal form about "how many guns you acquired" and "how many guns you disposed of". If the ratio of those categories was 3 to 2 , I think it may prompt at least an interview with an ATF agent. If in your 3 year license cycle you bought 150 guns and sold 100, that could look like a business. That decision could be a matter of opinion on the part of an ATF agent.

    Anyway, thanks for a good post. I felt I needed to make another view known.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    Arty,

    True. From the "clear as mud" explaination that I got from the ATF, they also include firearm values in the audit if they do one.

    If it shows that you are buying alot of low end to middle value firearms by the 2's or 3's and keeping one, selling the others, they will look at what other types of firearms that you have in the collection.

    i.e.: You have bought over 150 inexpensive rifles and you have kept 50 of them but sold the other 100. But you also have a higher priced item, lets say a Luger, also listed, they will (ask first) assume that you used the money from the 100 lower end firearms in order to buy the Luger which is considered a higher end C&R. Basically, you used the lesser valued firearms in order to buy a higher valued firearm. Hence the enhancement clause in the law.

    But you are correct to say that if you bought 150 lesser value, kept 50 and sold off the other 100 for more money than you paid (which you are going to sell for more due to the cosmo cleaning, cost of product, and abit to put toward another C&R type firearm) but not buying higher end firearms to enhance your collection then you are hitting into this gray area.

    The best thing to do is to call the ATF, ensure that you get the agents name(s), and either record the conversation (look at your states laws, in Oregon you have no obligation to tell the other party you are taping them and is allowed in court of law (state)) or send a letter, snail mail, and get one back on ATF letterhead. At least you have some form of defense if the ATF comes down on you.

  8. #7
    New Member Array Phalanx's Avatar
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    Wayne...
    Thank you for the great post! Definately much more than I originally thought the I wanted to know!!
    Arty...
    Thank you for the bit of "clarification!" I don't need any ATF agents visiting me anytime soon! :-)
    Both...
    Thank you again for the great posts...I'm off to the Post Office for a new roll of stamps!! ha ha ha I'll be calling Brownell's in the AM!
    Phalanx
    "Shooter Ready?"

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