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Taking Pictures of Guns in Action

13K views 117 replies 66 participants last post by  Captain Crunch 
#1 ·
#71 ·
"Some of you guys talk a lot of crap. The rest of you dont even know what you dont know."




There is one thing I do know and that is that you are one irresponsible individual who sets a poor example before the shooting world. Your conduct, along with the conduct of every person in that video, is indefensible. Bringing folks out of their comfort zones shouldn't include eventual self-sacrifice and, with the obvious noobs observed on that firing line, self-sacrifice is a real possibility. If folks are so witless that they have to attend such a silly course of instruction in order to realize that they absolutely can't afford to screw up then they are incapable of holding a measure of basic common sense and shouldn't touch firearms in the first place.

Do you also offer training in CPR, staunching blood flow, sucking chest wounds, not to mention shooting victim emergency room questioning by law enforcement? How about "Grand Jury 101?" Is "Implications of Manslaughter" on the syllabus along with "Remorse and Lifelong Regret?" Oh, and let's not forget the financial course needed: "Typical Attorney Fees and How to Subsist Without Savings and Assets." The poor foolish shmucks who shell out their treasure to take such courses really deserve the "full" course of study. It's all fine and dandy to posture and strut as a bad boy instructor but such "training" is unnecessary and out of line.

This inane video richly deserves the condemnation it is receiving here on the Forum. It's heartening to see the members recognize it for the foolhardiness that it is. This folly should have never been created much less recorded for all to see.

Thanks to IVron for starting this thread. It is instructive and much may be learned from the video and the comments generated. Concepts of safety and the responsibilities one takes when using a firearm are taught when one views a bunch of immature types foolishly playing with guns as if they were toys.
 
#79 ·
Yes.

What was your need and to your mind benefit in placing a living human being down range at the target stands, and asking/expecting students to fire in your direction albeit askew left and right by tens of a degree?

The video component itself of the class including you at hand is not the focal point of discussion.

- Janq

P.S. - bmcgilvray +.45
 
#80 ·
Those of us who carry day to day hold on to serious misconceptions about what they will or wont do when demanded.
Consider this.....once they have the gun out, on the sights and shooting the thing they have DECIDED to shoot it does not get any safer than that. It is only lethal for the target. It is all of the time leading up to and after that where it is dangerous.
"Down range" and "firing lines" are only things that exsist on ranges and no where else.

The pictures are simply a service we provide for those that get up and go seek training. If you are worried about guns pointed at me, I have had more guns pointed at me at gun stores than overseas.
Usually followed by " Its ok, it aint loaded."
The guy who put up the video did not mean any harm. It is regrettable that some have seen a small snippet of what we do and began to pile on. I think it is too their detriment.
Hope this helps.
Jay
 
#113 ·
Puh-Leez..

If you are worried about guns pointed at me, I have had more guns pointed at me at gun stores than overseas.
Usually followed by " Its ok, it aint loaded."
The guy who put up the video did not mean any harm. It is regrettable that some have seen a small snippet of what we do and began to pile on. I think it is too their detriment.
Hope this helps.
Jay
Let me guess, you also offer a Walter Mitty moment from "The Final Option", where your students burst through the door, and engage paper targets while you sit calmly in the middle of the room? Yeah, the SAS might actually do that, but I doubt it, and it's only a matter of time before you get that one student named "Twitch"...:ahhhhh:

Masturbatory exercises to show what a badass you are only serve to reinforce bad gun-handling techniques. I've done some strange exercises in my time, but live people downrange, just for the smell of the testosterone, no way. :spankme:
 
#81 ·
Thanks for sharing your point of view Jay.

Likewise, I say the risk/reward equation of this excersize does not add up. Accidents are just that, and when you become a statistic for the anti-gunners, we'll all thank you (sarcasm).
 
#82 ·
I am confused; I was directed to a site for a school run by James Yaeger; Are you Jay Gibson, or James Yaeger or an employee/instructor of his?
 
#84 ·
The actions depicted in the video violate nearly every firearms safety rule.
Whatever the reason or goal of the video, it can never be important enough to put anyone's life in mortal danger.
The "instructor" should have his license pulled. Period. RSO needs to never step foot on a range again. Period.
None of the students should have agreed to this BS!
If you guys need pictures that badly, then invest in a camera with a remote setup.
I just pray someone with less-than-average intelligence doesn't decide to copy these actions... "Derrr, well, they did it on the internet and it went okay..."
Pure irresponsibility in pursuit of a picture.
 
#85 ·
"I have had more guns pointed at me at gun stores..."

Yes, but we don't ask to have them pointed at us and we take corrective measures. Please consider what is depicted in the segment. Willful violation of gun safety, both by the photographer and the firing line, is there for all to see. Every participant in the clip should be embarrassed and ashamed to be seen there. What unintended influences can this snippet have with folks who are very young or very inexperienced yet determined to mimic such antics? And yes, the ones who negligibly wave muzzles around at gun shops, gun shows, and ranges are the types who will see this and think it's OK to behave in such a fashion while shooting.

Thank goodness that "down range" and "firing lines" exist on ranges. They are there for a prudent reason and should be respected. Firearms have the capacity to kill and a misapplied bullet can't be called back. There is no: "King's-X! I didn't intend to discharge that round...in that particular direction...where a person happened to be sitting with a camera in his hands!" The gun has the capacity to be lethal to any living thing, whether it be intended target or accidental cameraman.

I've shot competitively for many years and accidental discharges do occur. And they've been known to send bullets "off towards Jone's" too. A flinch, fumble, mechanical malfunction, or mental lapse and tragedy could be the result.

What is detrimental here is the appalling thoughtlessness exhibited by everyone shown in this example of training. Training in responsibility is what is indicated for each and every person shown in the segment. Please consider tightening up on gun handling procedures and don't subject students to unnecessary riskiness.
 
#90 ·
Jay, you have a point. There's lots of things I don't know that I don't know. But I do know a few things. I know a few pretty good shooters who hit their target every time. And I know I still wouldn't stand down range next to their target.
 
#93 ·
:hand1:Those guys are 100% dumb.
 
#99 ·
Here's my final take on all of this:

I steer well clear of folks that claim that I will "be a certified bad" anything in their advertising scheme, because if I end up in a firefight, someone is going to meet their maker. I plan on that person being the other guy. Can you imagine what a prosecutor will do when he comes across a website with advertising claims like that? and after they found out I was an attendee and proud graduate?

Over the years I have shot side-by-side with the best shooters in the world, from Specops types to Jerry Miculek, Ted Bonnet, Benny Cooley, Matt Burkett, Todd Jarret and a whole host of others it would take too long to name. One common thread with all of these guys is that they all without exception shared the same basic rules regarding safety on the range and around firearms whether they are teaching or competing. I have shot on hot ranges before many times, but never anything like what was depicted.

And as far as talking c***, I let my performance on the range speak for itself - safely....
 
#100 ·
Here is the problem,
These safety rules you guys repeat are range rules, not safety rules.They are only paid lip service to.
Miculeck, Barnhartt, Jarrett, and so on are not Spec-Ops types, you have confused you competition with other things.
The videos that you link show example what i mean. What silly card or omni-present RSO follows these people around to ensure they are being safe?

The picture part is not part of the drill, the drill is just them shooting.
So far much (too much) has been said about liability, certifications, limits,regulations and what the anti-gunners might think.
What does this have to do with saving your life? Why are you even carrying a gun?
 
#101 ·
Originally Posted by Tactical Response Website FAQ
Are your courses “certified”?
This is an odd question for us. Certified by whom? Our company is backed by professional liability insurance and is as “certified” as anyone else. One thing is certain though and that is you will be a certified badass after our class!
Considering what I've seen some shops have to go through with their insurance companies just to have a coffee maker out on the floor; I wonder what would happen if their "professional liability insurance" saw that video. I doubt they'd agree it was a safe practice.
 
#103 ·
"These safety rules you guys repeat are range rules, not safety rules."



Aw Jay, come on now. Be reasonable. What is the purpose of the rules if not to promote safety? It's great that so many here on the Forum are cognizant of proper rules for gun handling. Sure wish the same could be said for the twenty-something people in the video clip. That bunch doesn't even pay lip service to rules. Why do you assume that folks only pay lip service to firearms safety anyway? Being safe is a personal responsibility whether or not a card is in the wallet or a range officer is present.

"Miculeck, Barnhartt, Jarrett, and so on are not Spec-Ops types..." No they aren't. Nor am I along with nearly everyone who participates on this forum. What's more, neither are you!

Can you not recognize the "black eye" such a video gives responsible shooters or the ammunition it contributes to the antis' cause? Have you no concern for those who would imitate this in some sort of "down range" shooting scenario? Would you care if a tragedy resulted?

Incredible as it may sound to you, we can carry a gun and effectively use it without resorting to dangerous training methods. We're smart that way.
 
#105 ·
"Miculeck, Barnhartt, Jarrett, and so on are not Spec-Ops types..." No they aren't. Nor am I along with nearly everyone who participates on this forum. What's more, neither are you!
Actually, he is.
 
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