June 20th, 2009 12:39 PM
Regarding carry capacity.
I read this quote earlier, in another post. I have never felt undergunned with a 5 shot 38. I mostly carry autos, but not for reasons of capacity. Do you think that the amount of ammo in the gun is a real or perceived advantage? Point - How many reloads occur during a gunfight between a Citizen and a bad guy? I don't think that reloads happen often.
Just never saw the point to limit the amount of rounds I can put on BG when todays small semi-auto's are plenty reliable. For instance I carry a Kel Tec PF9, 7+1 of 9mm, plenty powerful and two more rounds than a revolver and still fits comfortably in my pocket
The old saying that you can't miss fast enough is certainly true. However, if you can hit the target, does the umpteen round magazine really help, in reality?
June 20th, 2009 12:46 PM
My G22 carries 15+1 and I sometimes carry 1 or 2 extra mags.
I'd rather have the ammo and not need then need and not have.
But you must realize that I am Active Army and when deployed carry over 210 rounds 5.56MM and 150 9MM.
"Without fear there can be no Courage!"
June 20th, 2009 12:47 PM
The average crime won't require dozens of shots, no. But it's almost certain that the one crime that finds us won't be "average."
Soldiers have a saying, as well, that there is no such thing as too much ammo. Why? 'Cause you never know what you're gonna get. Same applies to citizens, I think, even though situations are on the "battlefields" of the streets, not foreign fields.
With home invasions, robberies and assaults flying high as they are, more folks are facing more criminals bent on doing more damage, seemingly, than before. One simply cannot tell if the averages will come home to roost today, or otherwise. Some feel that this is a worthwhile criterion (of many) for deciding on defensive tools. YMMV.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
June 20th, 2009 12:50 PM
If shot placement, and the other stars of taking out the BG align and they drop on the first shot, no. Now if they aren't alone and you have more then one target yes. Also if the shot placement and stars of you're shooting do not align and you're 3 shots into this BG, then also it counts.
I say carry what you are comfortable with, although listen to others realize they are not you.
Myself I carry a full size .45, and 3 reloads now, with a BUG. Why because its what I am comfortable with, but its not my only option.
When CC I feel that its good to have Options in CC, like everything from a Combat grade pistol, to a small little pocket pistol. Semi or Revolver is also a preference, I prefer semi-auto, but shoot more accurately with a revolver.
When I go into work I can only carry a pocket pistol, and that means I push a .22lr into service for the time I can't carry my normal carry.
I know not what this "overkill" means.
Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.
June 20th, 2009 12:51 PM
Fundamental Truths of Self Defense
Originally Posted by Jay Frame
- Pistol bullets suck
- Bad guys travel in packs
Pistol rounds just aren't good at physically incapacitating people. I don't care what caliber we're talking about, they're just not that great. Multiple rounds may be necessary. A lot of trainers these days are teaching students to fire in bursts of 3-5 rounds.
Assaults, particularly armed robberies, often involve more than one assailant. Combine this with using multiple rounds on each adversary, and ammo starts getting used up pretty quick. This is why I like double-stack autos as carry guns.
June 20th, 2009 01:01 PM
If carrying spare ammo or a high capacity magazine in your pistol will keep you from carrying due to reasons of comfort and/or printing it's probably better to carry small. It's better to be armed than unarmed. That said my gun has an 18 capacity mag and I carry two spares on my left. The mag in the rear carries rounds that should have better penetrating qualities in case a vehicle or glass are involved. In this case it's not just "more is better," but diversity might save the day.
What if your primary magazine malfunctions?
June 20th, 2009 01:54 PM
While I certainly understand your point of view, my 7 + 1 Kimber should allow me to explain to some dirtbag, who has tried to prey upon the wrong 'senior citizen'...that he either needs to start thinking about leaving quickly (as his friend(s) have already decided to do), or he is going to be counting his last breaths just prior to his removal from this earth.
Originally Posted by Blackeagle
While I know the importance of 'more is better', I'm not thinking in terms of fighting an army of thugs, just those with the challenge in the WW parking lot.
My extra mag is more for a malfunction than for BG's to take a number...next!
Stay armed...OMOYMV...stay safe!
The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member[/B]
June 20th, 2009 02:04 PM
Ok, let me start off by saying I rarely feel undergunned with my 6 shot snubby, because if I do MY job, I shouldn't need more than 6 rounds for the AVERAGE encounter, IF I EVER get into one.
Originally Posted by retsupt99
However, in another life I was a street medic, and saw PLENTY of shootings. One thing became very clear to me: As mentioned pistol rounds suck. They often don't stop an an attack DRT (ded right there). Further, when a subject has certain narcotics on board or is amped on adrenalin, they might not stop until the CNS is crippled or they bleed out. I've gotten on scene to TREAT live perps that cops have shot as many as 16 times.
Therefore, though I may never need my firearm at all, count me among those who are comforted by having a few more than 6 rounds on me.
To each his own though.
Edit: I also agree on the extra mag being malfunction insurance as well.
June 20th, 2009 02:31 PM
I've always been a fan of the saying "Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it." Me personally, no matter how many rounds I can fit in a magazine, I want more available to me. My current 16+1 will be just fine I believe in a 1 on 1 scenario with a BG, but if he (or she these days) has friends with them, which is the case in a lot of defensive shootings, even that might not be enough.
I always carry 2 spare 16 rounders with me outside of the house. If something were to happen in the house like a home invasion with multiple hostiles, I'm just basically using suppressive fire until I can reach the AK or the Mossberg anyways so I don't tend to carry extra mags there.
And of course, would you only want to have 5 shots available to you if you're out on the street when the zombie uprising occurs?
"Stand your ground, don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here!" - John Parker April 19th, 1775 Lexington, MA
June 20th, 2009 03:47 PM
It is a real advantage, not a perceived one. Naturally you need to be able to hit when you shoot, but having more ammo is always better than having less ammo.
June 20th, 2009 06:18 PM
You know me....I love my Glocks and for good reasons.......but I don't feel under gunned with my SIG P220 SAO and 8+1, but I almost always carry a spare mag full with it, but occasionally with the Glocks. What does that tell ya? Firepower is good, caliber is just a measurement.
June 20th, 2009 08:32 PM
I respect your first hand observations and experiences. However, anyone who has seen the damage a .357 defensive round causes would not make the same statement that "pistol bullets suck."
Originally Posted by Blackeagle
As for traveling in packs, if more people would take the time to learn to shoot multiple targets at speed, even a pack of BG's is nothing to be concerned about with a revolver. The average steel challenge guys can put 5 rounds down range under 3 seconds. That is one round per dinner plate sized target (think BG) and they usually don't miss COM.
Of course with a revolver I would still carry (and practice with) a speedloader. Just in case.
June 20th, 2009 08:55 PM
Well, if you carry a J-Frame then one speed strip of extra ammunition is not much additional weight to lug around.
Or at the very least just pop 5 loose extra rounds into a pocket.
Since you never know exactly what sort of trouble might find you, I think 10 rounds beats 5 any old day and that tiny little bit of added weight is a very small price to pay for double the firepower.
Again, just my personal opinion.
June 20th, 2009 09:21 PM
"I respect your first hand observations and experiences. However, anyone who has seen the damage a .357 defensive round causes would not make the same statement that "pistol bullets suck."
I have seen .357 wounds. Some were fatal. Some were not. 357 is a better pistol load than some, but it still is neither magic, nor the equal of most rifle rounds. My point is, that all handgun loads are a compromise, and hoping for the enchanted "one shot kill" is dangerous, and I prefer to have every other advantage I can muster without too much difficulty.
June 20th, 2009 09:46 PM
Interesting. Usually it's the .45 guys who say "but my caliber doesn't suck!"
Originally Posted by Rob P.
Pistol bullets can produce some nasty wounds. They can kill people, but they don't do a good job of stopping them. Quick physical incapacitation is what we're after in a self-defense scenario, and no pistol caliber is very good at it. Rifles, sure. Shotguns, absolutely. Pistols, not so much.
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