June 24th, 2009 08:42 PM
I hope I am posting this question in the right forum. I live in WV and have been informed by my wife that her daughter who lives in Georgia wants purchase a hand gun I have been drooling over as a birthday present. She intends to give it to me when we visit at the end of the month. My wife only informed me of this because she wanted to make sure it was the right gun.
I told her I was glad she told me and I don’t want to ruin her daughters surprise but I don’t believe this can be legally done without the involvement of fire arms dealer…I am I right?
June 24th, 2009 08:58 PM
I believe you are right. Since the transfer is crossing state lines, you'll have to go through a FFL dealer. Most dealers around here only charge $20 to $30 for the fee. Depending on the state, some may require payment for the background check. If you have CCW permit, they may waive the background check fee.
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June 24th, 2009 09:09 PM
I would have it transferred FFL to FFL. I do believe it is the law. What part of the state are you in? I may be able to help you out. I have several friends with FFL.
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June 24th, 2009 09:11 PM
Not wanting the BATFE to even question any sidearm purchase or sale, I would always go through the closest FFL to the transaction...$25 is pretty cheap to keep it all above board.
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June 24th, 2009 09:15 PM
Yeah. You gotta go through a FFL Dealer per Big Brother's request.
June 24th, 2009 09:15 PM
She does not have to use a FFL, but you cannot receive the gun, and therefore a FL from your state must receve and transfer the gun to you.
June 24th, 2009 10:31 PM
??? If she gives it to him in one state (or sells it to him for buck) and he carries it home, why does he need a FFL? I realize that shipping has to be done to a FFL, but I wasn't aware that a face-to-face private sale to a person from another state might be a problem. Help me here...
== added ==
Nevermind - I was only familar with same-state transfers. Here's what ATF says:
From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?
A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]
May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]
June 24th, 2009 10:39 PM
Sidebar: I’m not up on this FFL thing’ but I would love to know how this may protect me, if I were to sell a gun here on line. Does the process officially change the ownership from me to you, so I can sleep better at night?
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June 24th, 2009 11:03 PM
If you sell a gun online, have the buyer find a dealer you can ship it to and for the $25 or so fee that dealer will do the paperwork to transfer it to the buyer at his end.
In this situation, the easiest thing would be for the daughter to find the gun at a shop in your state, pay for it, then you go pick it up and fill out the paperwork when you do.
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June 24th, 2009 11:59 PM
I'm available if she wants to practice this first.
Originally Posted by JohnK87
June 25th, 2009 12:49 AM
this MAY be considered a straw purchase and that could get both parties in hot water.
I would use a FFL to be clean and safe.
"the term is best understood within the context of United States federal gun laws, whereby a straw purchase is defined as any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is acting as a proxy for another person. The law does not distinguish between someone who is purchasing on behalf of a person who legally cannot purchase or possess a firearm, and one who is not."
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June 25th, 2009 08:10 AM
There is no problem in most states with a face to face exchange weither cash sale or gift.
June 25th, 2009 08:19 AM
Originally Posted by tbrenke
Gotta get an FFL to put it in his hands in his state, ultimately.
- The 'send a check to a dealer in the recipient's state' is clean, as the recipient is the one filling out the background check paperwork at the dealer's.
- Buying in the giver's state and handing him the gun, saying, "This will be yours as soon as I ship it to an FFL in your state" is also clean (again, the recipient is the one filling out the paperwork).
- Giving or selling face-to-face IF YOU BOTH LIVE IN THE SAME STATE is also clean (assumes he's able to own a firearm).
- Her living in one state and him living in another state? Illegal (see ATF quotes, above).
A straw purchase is where one person approaches another and gives him or her cash to make the purchase (so #2 is acting as #1's agent or proxy), while buying as a gift is different - it's a free act on the giver's part rather than a proxy relationship. But the issue here is the state border, not who is purchasing.
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June 25th, 2009 09:05 AM
So am I to understand one can not purchase a firearm as a gift for another person?
How would it affect an inheritance? Someone leaves you their firearms or family want to get rid of some of their collection?
I would assume a recently purchased "new" pistol may need to be done through an FFL, though I disagree if one law abiding citizen purchases a gift for another? What about husband for wife or wife for husband, dad for son etc...?
Could you not just register it somehow in your name or would that have to be done by an FFL?
June 25th, 2009 09:49 AM
If she brings it to him and gives it to him it is an in state transfer.
Here is a link to a 4473. Buying as a gift is a legitimate purchase, see the definition of "actual buyer" near the bottom of the page.
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