Unclear NY State Law on Carrying Long Guns in Car

[JonInNY]

New York State law, in regards to transporting firearms in your vehicle:

"Possession of any loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle is illegal".
"Loaded means a firearm with ammunition loaded in magazine or chamber or any firearm which is possessed by one who at the same time possesses a quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such a firearm".

OK, I have no problem with the first sentence. That is obvious as to intent.

But, for example, when I go trap shooting each week, I have the shotgun in the car (unloaded, of course), and many boxes of shotshells in my range bag. Now that seems to me a direct violation of the 2nd part of this law. Obviously, everyone who goes to the range for long gun target practice, or trap, carries the ammo they need with the gun.

Am I missing something, or is it just another one of those stupid, impossible to enforce, ridiculously worded laws. Wait, I think I answered my own question.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Stranger]

I took care of that whole issue by last viewing NY in the rear view mirror. I am so glad I left east coast's Kalifornia.

[Jetpilot007]

You may want to purchase the following book: New York's Firearms and Weapons Laws" by Lt. Lee Thomas & Atty. Jeffrey Chamberlain. We being NY'ers are best to understand all of the Communist laws. It is especially useful for CCW holders. One must always thinks like a lawyer. And dont ever ASSUME. Assume will get you locked up.

[rottkeeper]

You may possess ammo as long as the weapon is not loaded and the breach is open. The ENCON handbooks give a pretty clear explanation of how to transport firearms.

[sp2022]

I live in Canada. You think NY laws suck. Ah Ah AH!!! I travel to NY state often. You need to have the firearm and the ammo locked in two seperate containers. You do this you are good. Now in Canada you need to have your ammo not accessible to the firearm, but you can have them in the same container together as long as it is locked??? makes sense does'nt it. No it does'nt. Well in NY you still have a chance to get a CCW. Not even a chance here. You can not even own a pistol with a barrel under 4" unless you are grandfathered. You can not apply for that type of permit. Once the individuals all die there will no longer by law to have this type of firearm in Canada. You have to apply to get a transport permit to take it anywhere. you have to call evertime and give them the route you will be traveling. Now you hope they are in a good mood when you call and do not piss them off... Sorry for the rant it frustrats me.

[Siafu]

I live in NY and while it is not as bad as Canada yet, it still sucks. I have an unrestricted CCW permit but the quality of life in this God forsaken cesspool of liberal minded stupidity is unbearable. I can't wait until i have enough money saved to make a move to a state that still understands the meaning of the word "Liberty".

The irony of the "Statue of Liberty" being located in NY Harbor is not lost on me.

[JonInNY]

Actually, this was more a questioning of the inane law. Everyone I know of puts their long gun into the back seat (unloaded), with the ammo separate, and heads to the range. It just appears as though this is illegal, according to the way the law is written.

[sp2022]

I can't wait until i have enough money saved to make a move to a state that still understands the meaning of the word "Liberty".

I love going to vermont. What a great State. You should move there. I will be going toVT in less then 2 weeks. Going to stay in Stowe at green mountain inn. Usually go to Burlington but thought we try some thing different this time.

[MedPig]

The irony of the "Statue of Liberty" being located in NY Harbor is not lost on me.

For the record, it actually in NEW JERSEY waters, but New York helped themselves to it. Typical of the NYC mindset.

Try PA, we're very gun friendly.

[darkvibe]

I've thought about this before. I'm not a lawyer but think the intent is clear. Only thing I can figure is that a rifle in your trunk is in your vehicle but you are not in "possession" of it since it's not in your direct access. I know it isn't spelled out but it was the only thing that I could make sense of in my head.

[boscobeans]

For the record, it actually in NEW JERSEY waters, but New York helped themselves to it. Typical of the NYC mindset.

Try PA, we're very gun friendly.

Bedloe's Island, actually Bedloo's Island was never part of or owned by New Jersey. Yes it is NJ waters, but never part of the Garden State.

It was Government property most of the time and was bought and later sold by a New Yorker to become a US Fort.

Construction of a land battery, in the shape of an 11-point star, was begun on Bedloe's Island in 1806 and finished 5 years later. For a while referred to merely as the "works on Bedloe's Island," it later was named "Fort Wood" in memory of a distinguished hero of the War of 1812 who was killed in 1814 during an attack on Fort Erie.

Following the War of 1812, Fort Wood served at various times as a Corps of Artillery garrison, ordnance depot, and recruiting station, and intermittently as a quarantine station.

bosco

[JonInNY]

Boy, this thread has really diverged from my original observation, but it's fun to read. BTW, I'm attaching a photo I took from my Cessna last year, flying down the Hudson, of Liberty Island, formerly Bedloe's Island.

[2edgesword]

I am not a lawyer but...

I believe the reference in the OP was from NYS Penal Law, Chapter 40, Section 265...

#11 "Loaded firearm" means any firearm loaded with ammunition or any firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses a quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm.

but prior to that section a firearm is described as...

#3 "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d) any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e) an assault weapon. For the purpose of this subdivision the length of the barrel on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or breechlock when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique firearm."

I believe the prohibition regarding carrying a loaded rifle or shotgun is part of NYS Environmental Law (11-0931) which states...

"2. No firearm except a pistol or revolver shall be carried or
possessed in or on a motor vehicle unless it is unloaded in both the
chamber and the magazine, except that a loaded firearm which may be
legally used for taking migratory game birds may be carried or possessed
in a motorboat while being legally used in hunting migratory game birds,
and no person except a law enforcement officer in the performance of his
official duties shall, while in or on a motor vehicle, use a jacklight,
spotlight or other artificial light upon lands inhabited by deer if he
is in possession or is accompanied by a person who is in possession, at
the time of such use, of a longbow, crossbow or a firearm of any kind
except a pistol or revolver, unless such longbow is unstrung or such
firearm is taken down or securely fastened in a case or locked in the
trunk of the vehicle. For purposes of this subdivision, motor vehicle
shall mean every vehicle or other device operated by any power other
than muscle power, and which shall include but not be limited to
automobiles, trucks, motorcycles, tractors, trailers and motorboats,
snowmobiles and snowtravelers, whether operated on or off public
highways. Notwithstanding the provisions of this subdivision, the
department may issue a permit to any person who is non-ambulatory,
except with the use of a mechanized aid, to possess a loaded firearm in
or on a motor vehicle as defined in this section, subject to such
restrictions as the department may deem necessary in the interest of
public safety, and for a fee of five dollars. Nothing in this section
permits the possession of a pistol or a revolver contrary to the penal
law."

This section of law only references loaded as being a round(s) in the chamber or magazine.

I would also think that the federal law regarding transporting a firearm, which describes the unloaded conditions of transport, from one location where it can be legally possessed to another location where it can be legally possessed might be a protection against prosecution for carrying a unloaded rifle or shotgun with ammo stored separately...

but I'm not a lawyer.

[JonInNY]

That's a very detailed analysis, but I think it misses the point. I guess what I'm asking is if all our range members are violating the law if they carry their unloaded rifle in the car, and some ammo in the range bag. I don't know if anyone around here that keeps both locked up separately to travel to the local range.

My (non-legal) opinion is that the law is an oxymoron. On one hand you can't carry a loaded long gun, but on the other hand you can't carry ammo either (at the same time, because the gun is then considrered "loaded")! Even if both were locked up separately, it still violates the law, as written.

Maybe we should go to the range, drop off the gun, go back home, pick up the ammo, and return. That would not violate the law, as written.

[rottkeeper]

I am not a lawyer but...

I believe the reference in the OP was from NYS Penal Law, Chapter 40, Section 265...

#11 "Loaded firearm" means any firearm loaded with ammunition or any firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses a quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm.

but prior to that section a firearm is described as...

#3 "Firearm" means (a) any pistol or revolver; or (b) a shotgun having one or more barrels less than eighteen inches in length; or (c) a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length; or (d) any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise if such weapon as altered, modified, or otherwise has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches; or (e) an assault weapon. For the purpose of this subdivision the length of the barrel on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or breechlock when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked; the overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore. Firearm does not include an antique firearm."

I believe the prohibition regarding carrying a loaded rifle or shotgun is part of NYS Environmental Law (11-0931) which states...

"2. No firearm except a pistol or revolver shall be carried or
possessed in or on a motor vehicle unless it is unloaded in both the
chamber and the magazine, except that a loaded firearm which may be
legally used for taking migratory game birds may be carried or possessed
in a motorboat while being legally used in hunting migratory game birds,
and no person except a law enforcement officer in the performance of his
official duties shall, while in or on a motor vehicle, use a jacklight,
spotlight or other artificial light upon lands inhabited by deer if he
is in possession or is accompanied by a person who is in possession, at
the time of such use, of a longbow, crossbow or a firearm of any kind
except a pistol or revolver, unless such longbow is unstrung or such
firearm is taken down or securely fastened in a case or locked in the
trunk of the vehicle. For purposes of this subdivision, motor vehicle
shall mean every vehicle or other device operated by any power other
than muscle power, and which shall include but not be limited to
automobiles, trucks, motorcycles, tractors, trailers and motorboats,
snowmobiles and snowtravelers, whether operated on or off public
highways. Notwithstanding the provisions of this subdivision, the
department may issue a permit to any person who is non-ambulatory,
except with the use of a mechanized aid, to possess a loaded firearm in
or on a motor vehicle as defined in this section, subject to such
restrictions as the department may deem necessary in the interest of
public safety, and for a fee of five dollars. Nothing in this section
permits the possession of a pistol or a revolver contrary to the penal
law."

This section of law only references loaded as being a round(s) in the chamber or magazine.

I would also think that the federal law regarding transporting a firearm, which describes the unloaded conditions of transport, from one location where it can be legally possessed to another location where it can be legally possessed might be a protection against prosecution for carrying a unloaded rifle or shotgun with ammo stored separately...

but I'm not a lawyer.

That is the section I was referring to also.