What would you do? (advice needed)

This is a discussion on What would you do? (advice needed) within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by ghost tracker JMO: If he's your friend, talk with HIM . If you write a letter, SIGN it. If he isn't a ...

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Thread: What would you do? (advice needed)

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    JMO:
    If he's your friend, talk with HIM.
    If you write a letter, SIGN it.
    If he isn't a felon & passes legal muster, he gets his ticket.
    What if HE gets killed because, in your opinion, he shouldn't be allowed to exercise his right-to-carry?
    +1. If he is a friend, even one who has gone off the deep end, then talk to him about it not the sheriff. If you feel that you need to write a letter, then make sure your name is on it.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    Did you ever think........

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    Ok, maybe I didn't think this out or typw it out properly. Let me try again, but this time I'll ask, because I was assuming...and you know what that gets ya.

    IF you wrote an anonymous letter, then it would be up to the Issuing Agency to decide whether or not to investigate the allegations, yes or no?

    IF they decided not to, and issued a permit anyway, then oh well, you did your part. If the guys screws up and someone gets hurt or injured, you tried your best. If he doesn't screw up, then no harm no foul, and he got his permit anyhow, so it ended up costing you a stamp.

    IF they decide to investigate, that doesn't mean they won't give him a permit, or you guys are right, ANYONE could write a letter and ruin someone's day/chance at a permit/life/reputation, etc.

    BUT -- if they investigate and find that he's still worthy of a permit, then you've done your due dilligence, and for whatever reason, they don't see him as being unworthy or a threat.

    IF they investigate AND decide not to issue, then it's because he CLEARLY shouldn't get one, right? I mean, that would mean that they found out that he's unstable, abusing drugs, etc, right? And since it was anonymous, it's not like this unstable druggie can then link it back to you and think about exacting his revenge.

    But we'd have potential fodder for the anti crowd nipped in the bud.

    ----------
    Now, all that having been said, is it still not a great idea? I'm asking as much for myself as for the OP, because you two make excellent points about it.




    Edited to add: he already said the potential permitee abuses Rx drugs. I don'tt know what kind, but if it's something that could alter or affect reasoning, reaction, etc...well you're not supposed to mix alcohol with firearms, and here in NC you can't have any drugs in your system unless prescribed to you, obtained legally, and only in THERAPUTIC DOSAGE in the bloodstream. So I'm just wondering if by simply abusing drugs, he's already screwed up his chance to operate/have a permit with his state?


    That getting a permit might give him the incentive to act more responsibly? Regardless, it's not your responsibility to determine whether or not he gets a permit, that the function of the issuing agency. If you do decide to send a letter, at least have the intestinal fortitude to stand by your convictions and sign it, as you will then become an integral part of the investigation and I'm sure the agency would want to interview you. Also as a former LEO, I can tell you that anonomous letters typically end up in the circular file.
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
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  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    That getting a permit might give him the incentive to act more responsibly? Regardless, it's not your responsibility to determine whether or not he gets a permit, that the function of the issuing agency. If you do decide to send a letter, at least have the intestinal fortitude to stand by your convictions and sign it, as you will then become an integral part of the investigation and I'm sure the agency would want to interview you. Also as a former LEO, I can tell you that anonomous letters typically end up in the circular file.
    That makes alot of sense.

    Ok, I'm changing my answer. Write the letter but sign your name.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    He is abusing prescription drugs, ...
    drinking heavily on a regular basis.
    If I knew this about a relative, drivers' license or CCW permit, I'd drop a dime. Both of these issues have pretty defined standards, but the scripts are certainly easiest to check.

    Drunks/dopers do not "see the light" with increased responsibility, they usually hurt/kill someone else.

    Write the letter but sign your name.
    If the social circumstances are as described, there will be retaliation. Visit the local PD, shake hands, do a FTF with the officer in charge of the Licensure Div., and deliver it as a "whatever it's worth". Your name shouldn't appear on any report.

    If I read your occupation correctly, you probably already know what needs doing.

  6. #20
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    Hey Fatcat, no disrespect intended. Just a few Devil's Advocate questions;
    What does the individual-in-question think of your character?
    Have you changed any personal habits or associations in the last 5 years?
    Do you consider him your friend?
    If you're assaulted & out-gunned...would you want him with you?

    JMO:
    If he's your friend, talk with HIM.
    If you write a letter, SIGN it.
    If he isn't a felon & passes legal muster, he gets his ticket.
    What if HE gets killed because, in your opinion, he shouldn't be allowed to exercise his right-to-carry?
    Well if it was just me who thought he changed in the last 5 years I wound not even be here.....

    Just to correct any other assumptions on this, he is my stepfather, and has been since 1979. And he has totally changed from what he was the first 25 years we all knew him. So much so that my mother and sister, both nurses were convince for a while that he had a brain tumor....No joke!

    He went from a totally stand up guy, who I would have wanted with me in any fox-hole (since you asked) but at this point no one even wants him around at all.

    In the last 5 years he bought a multifamily house, a complete pile of crap, at the behest of one of his new buddies who just happens to be a real estate agent. He did this without even consulting my mother, and ended up losing their entire $350,000 retirement savings account. The house was a pile of crap, that he spent 40k fixing up, only to rent to complete scumbags who his real estate agent found for him. They never paid rent, and destroyed the place in two years until it was condemed by the city.

    He then proceeded to give my mother's car, to his new girlfriend. And he put her up in one of their rental houses, again all behind our backs. Of course at the time he told my mother he sold it to a friend who was going to make payments.....No payments, no friend. Just some random 25 year old girl who scammed him for a free car, which at the time was a vehicle with all of 25k miles on it.

    He then told my mother he does not love her anymore, and moved out of the house to live in a crappy little apartment. He would then stop by and brag to us about the fact that he's running drugs for the and I quote, "The Greek Mafia"....Um, OK. We took that to mean that his good buddy the real estate agent, who is Greek, was either filling his head with crap, or the stuff was getting in there all on its own.

    We have tried to talk to him, but he literally turn red, shuts down, and either changes the subject or walks away. Some of his old friends from NJ actually came up to see for themselves because they thought my mother was being over dramatic about it all. Needless to say they were all stunned as well.

    I think he fried his brain on prescription medication. Or he has a brain tumor that the doctors have missed. I have no clue.

  7. #21
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    That makes alot of sense.

    Ok, I'm changing my answer. Write the letter but sign your name.
    FWIW I would not send any letter at all. I agree any letter, signed or not is not the way to go.

    If I do anything, I will call the State Police Investigator that interviewed me for my pistol permit and just ask him what he thought. That is what I planned to do, if anything at all. That way nothing official is done. I was just going to ask his opinion and not give any names at first.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    I think he fried his brain on prescription medication.
    You either "think" this, or you know this. Multiple docs, multiple pill bottles, multi-dosing during the day, at work, before bed, etc., pretty well defines addiction/impaired judgement. If you can't enumerate any of these points, it's feeling- just sever all contact.

    If there is evidence, see above.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    Ok, maybe I didn't think this out or typw it out properly. Let me try again, but this time I'll ask, because I was assuming...and you know what that gets ya.

    IF you wrote an anonymous letter, then it would be up to the Issuing Agency to decide whether or not to investigate the allegations, yes or no?

    I believe that would be the case, yes.

    IF they decided not to, and issued a permit anyway, then oh well, you did your part. If the guys screws up and someone gets hurt or injured, you tried your best. If he doesn't screw up, then no harm no foul, and he got his permit anyhow, so it ended up costing you a stamp.

    IF they decide to investigate, that doesn't mean they won't give him a permit, or you guys are right, ANYONE could write a letter and ruin someone's day/chance at a permit/life/reputation, etc.

    Unless they can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt (conviction) that he has in fact committed a crime or he is mentally unstable, he has the same rights as we all share. Anything else is an open door to deny the peoples right to carry. It would truly be a slippery slope.

    BUT -- if they investigate and find that he's still worthy of a permit, then you've done your due dilligence, and for whatever reason, they don't see him as being unworthy or a threat.

    IF they investigate AND decide not to issue, then it's because he CLEARLY shouldn't get one, right? I mean, that would mean that they found out that he's unstable, abusing drugs, etc, right? And since it was anonymous, it's not like this unstable druggie can then link it back to you and think about exacting his revenge.

    Then they would be denying him a permit on grounds that he (might) commit a crime. That is totally against the way our system is supposed to work.

    But we'd have potential fodder for the anti crowd nipped in the bud.

    They will always have fodder be it real or made up.
    ----------
    Now, all that having been said, is it still not a great idea? I'm asking as much for myself as for the OP, because you two make excellent points about it.




    Edited to add: he already said the potential permitee abuses Rx drugs. I don'tt know what kind, but if it's something that could alter or affect reasoning, reaction, etc...well you're not supposed to mix alcohol with firearms, and here in NC you can't have any drugs in your system unless prescribed to you, obtained legally, and only in THERAPUTIC DOSAGE in the bloodstream. So I'm just wondering if by simply abusing drugs, he's already screwed up his chance to operate/have a permit with his state?
    I fully understand you concerns about alcohol and drug abuse while being a CCW holder but until he does something to lose his rights he is still covered by the constitution and BOR, same as us.
    I am sure many have become drug and alcohol abusers after getting their permits but until convicted they do not lose their right to carry.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  10. #24
    Member Array boerep's Avatar
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    No one's Business

    Like most of the Federal Government, it's simply no one's business except the issuing authorities. There is already a lot of "Stupid" out there. Your friend may or may not be one of them, and you can not possibly be responsible for them.

    Regards
    Rick
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  11. #25
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Agreed with JerryM
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  12. #26
    Member Array boerep's Avatar
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    And Also

    Case on Point: I was purchasing an 9mm auto from my local shop, and while I was waiting I watched the shop owner selling a Large Revolver to a really old Guy in a walker, who I noticed handled the Pistol in what I would call an irresponsible manner. Pointy end at wife's stomach etc. Yes Gun was unloaded (?) He never checked. I kept thinking that this old fellow needed a good dog but not a gun. Bottom line he has the right to buy it. None of my business.

    Regards
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  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    Rottkeeper: yes. A slippery slope indeed. I hate stuff like this. Much more comfortable with simple black-and-white.
    Don't frisk me, I am the weapon.


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  14. #28
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    what interview with State Police???

    so legally if he passes the background checks and the State Police interview he will probably get it.
    I applied for my permit in Feb. of '94 and I didn't hear one word from anyone for 9 months. I finally got fed-up and called the Monroe County Sheriff's office and asked to talk to the investigating officer, when I informed him that he and the State were in violation of the State Constitution he pushed my permit through in 48 hours.

    He's the only guy I talked to and that was over the phone???

    So i'm kind of curious as to what this State Police interview is all about???

    Also I had to put down 5 Character witness's, but I was smart enough to use people that all ready had Permits
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  15. #29
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmac00 View Post
    what interview with State Police???



    I applied for my permit in Feb. of '94 and I didn't hear one word from anyone for 9 months. I finally got fed-up and called the Monroe County Sheriff's office and asked to talk to the investigating officer, when I informed him that he and the State were in violation of the State Constitution he pushed my permit through in 48 hours.

    He's the only guy I talked to and that was over the phone???

    So i'm kind of curious as to what this State Police interview is all about???

    Also I had to put down 5 Character witness's, but I was smart enough to use people that all ready had Permits
    Well here in Cortland County, after you get your references and wait for a few months, you have to meet and interview in person, with a NY State Police investigator.

    It was not a really big deal, he just asked me a bunch of personal questions. He asked me about my job, who was living in my house, why I wanted a pistol (I said mostly sport/target/IDP etc..) if anyone else would have access etc..etc...etc.... All in all it was over in probably 30-40 minutes tops, maybe less I honestly did not count.

    After that interview your permit is sent to the county clerks office, where they issue the permit based on the interview and a judges decision. Or they don't issue it if you failed one of the background checks. Whatever the case may be.

    It seems like NY has a difference set of rules for every county.

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    Well here in Cortland County, after you get your references and wait for a few months, you have to meet and interview in person, with a NY State Police investigator.

    It was not a really big deal, he just asked me a bunch of personal questions. He asked me about my job, who was living in my house, why I wanted a pistol (I said mostly sport/target/IDP etc..) if anyone else would have access etc..etc...etc.... All in all it was over in probably 30-40 minutes tops, maybe less I honestly did not count.

    After that interview your permit is sent to the county clerks office, where they issue the permit based on the interview and a judges decision. Or they don't issue it if you failed one of the background checks. Whatever the case may be.

    It seems like NY has a difference set of rules for every county.





    It would seem Monroe county is more gun friendly than many other counties in NY. Thank goodness for that
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