What would you do? (advice needed)

This is a discussion on What would you do? (advice needed) within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; OK I was curious what some of you think of this. There is someone I know who has applied for a NY CWP, and I ...

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Thread: What would you do? (advice needed)

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    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    What would you do? (advice needed)

    OK I was curious what some of you think of this.

    There is someone I know who has applied for a NY CWP, and I personally do not think this person should have one. This is a person I've known for a long time, and in recent years they have become quite mentally unstable. He is abusing prescription drugs, running with a very bad and much younger crowd, and drinking heavily on a regular basis. And this was someone who I didn't see take a drink for probably close to 20 years. The person has changed so much in the past 5 years that most of the people who've known him for decades no longer want anything to do with him. It has gone far beyond a mid-life crisis.

    Am I wrong for wanting to intervene? I mean there is a chance there is nothing I can do to stop it. They did not put me down as a personal reference because I am related, so legally if he passes the background checks and the State Police interview he will probably get it.

    Is there anything I can do? And if there is, should I do it?

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    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    OK I was curious what some of you think of this.

    There is someone I know who has applied for a NY CWP, and I personally do not think this person should have one. This is a person I've known for a long time, and in recent years they have become quite mentally unstable. He is abusing prescription drugs, running with a very bad and much younger crowd, and drinking heavily on a regular basis. And this was someone who I didn't see take a drink for probably close to 20 years. The person has changed so much in the past 5 years that most of the people who've known him for decades no longer want anything to do with him. It has gone far beyond a mid-life crisis.

    Am I wrong for wanting to intervene? I mean there is a chance there is nothing I can do to stop it. They did not put me down as a personal reference because I am related, so legally if he passes the background checks and the State Police interview he will probably get it.

    Is there anything I can do? And if there is, should I do it?
    Maybe a hard one, but I would leave it to the authorities to ferret out his character and conduct. If asked then be truthful, but I would not intervene otherwise.

    Regards,
    Jerry

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    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    Maybe a hard one, but I would leave it to the authorities to ferret out his character and conduct. If asked then be truthful, but I would not intervene otherwise.

    Regards,
    Jerry
    Thanks...... I was leaning that direction but I'm still not sure. I will feel really bad if they do something stupid. But I suppose if stupid is inevitable this won't make or break it. He already does own a shotgun so its not like he couldn't use that for something stupid. But he cannot carry his shotgun around with him.

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    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    I'd write an anonymous letter to the issuing agency. You feel that this person should not hold a CCWP, and it seems rightfully so. If he does indeed do something irresponsible, won't you feel guilty if someone gets hurt or dies and you could have at least done your part to voice against it? If the issuing agency goes ahead and approves him, well at least you did all you could. JMO though.
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    I agree with Bunny, an anonymous letter would not be a bad idea. It still leaves it up to the issuing agency to determine whether or not he will be approved.
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    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    I'd write an anonymous letter to the issuing agency. You feel that this person should not hold a CCWP, and it seems rightfully so. If he does indeed do something irresponsible, won't you feel guilty if someone gets hurt or dies and you could have at least done your part to voice against it? If the issuing agency goes ahead and approves him, well at least you did all you could. JMO though.
    Those letters should not impede anyone from getting their permit. Anyone with a personal grudge can write a letter stating falsehoods in an attempt to ruin someones life.

    Albeit you have a valid concern, a person can not have a right taken away for something they might do.

    If we start to choose who gets a permit by public opinion then it is no longer a right.


    Disclaimer: I too would have concerns but until a person has lost their rights we can not discriminate.
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    Why did YOU let your name be used as a reference? (I'm assuming you were asked, if not, ignore the question.)
    If any of my relatives were too dangerous to get a permit, I would tell them so...
    Evil abounds when good men do nothing.I'm just sayin...
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    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    You do not mention what county this person lives in and do you know if that county ask for references. I live in Nassau County and they ask for 4 references. They give you the form to give to the 4 people who must mail it back into NCPD. Who is this guy going to use if they require references? Would any of his new friends pass a background check? Sending in a letter is a good idea or maybe place an anonymous phone call asking for the case worker who is handling the application for Mr. or Ms. Smith and speak to them for 5 minutes and speak your mind. Tell them why you feel the way that you do. Let the case worker make the final decision. If something does happen your can place your head on the pillow knowing you tried to do the correct thing. If the applicant truly wants it I am sure that they will be able to appeal the decision and the issuing agency will approve it.

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    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Why did YOU let your name be used as a reference? (I'm assuming you were asked, if not, ignore the question.)
    If any of my relatives were too dangerous to get a permit, I would tell them so...
    Evil abounds when good men do nothing.I'm just sayin...
    No I did NOT give my name as a reference. But I was NOT asked either because I am related to this person by law. In NY you need 4 personal references who are not related to you in any way.

    I'm not sure who he used to his 4 references. I imagine he found 4 in-county residence that would do it. Probably some of his new friends.

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    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HITCH KING View Post
    You do not mention what county this person lives in and do you know if that county ask for references. I live in Nassau County and they ask for 4 references. They give you the form to give to the 4 people who must mail it back into NCPD. Who is this guy going to use if they require references? Would any of his new friends pass a background check? Sending in a letter is a good idea or maybe place an anonymous phone call asking for the case worker who is handling the application for Mr. or Ms. Smith and speak to them for 5 minutes and speak your mind. Tell them why you feel the way that you do. Let the case worker make the final decision. If something does happen your can place your head on the pillow knowing you tried to do the correct thing. If the applicant truly wants it I am sure that they will be able to appeal the decision and the issuing agency will approve it.
    I think all counties in NY require 4 in-county references. This is Cortland County and they do require it. The friends do not have to pass background checks on the applicant. In our case the references only have to fill out and sign a piece of paper that the applicant files with the other required papers. The judge is supposed to call all 4 for a character bank.

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    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Hey Fatcat, no disrespect intended. Just a few Devil's Advocate questions;
    What does the individual-in-question think of your character?
    Have you changed any personal habits or associations in the last 5 years?
    Do you consider him your friend?
    If you're assaulted & out-gunned...would you want him with you?

    JMO:
    If he's your friend, talk with HIM.
    If you write a letter, SIGN it.
    If he isn't a felon & passes legal muster, he gets his ticket.
    If he does indeed do something irresponsible, won't you feel guilty if someone gets hurt or dies and you could have at least done your part to voice against it?
    What if HE gets killed because, in your opinion, he shouldn't be allowed to exercise his right-to-carry?
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

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    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    Not a good idea........

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    I'd write an anonymous letter to the issuing agency. You feel that this person should not hold a CCWP, and it seems rightfully so. If he does indeed do something irresponsible, won't you feel guilty if someone gets hurt or dies and you could have at least done your part to voice against it? If the issuing agency goes ahead and approves him, well at least you did all you could. JMO though.


    This would open the door for anyone to make allegations against anyone else. I could say you're a nut case and shouldn't be issued a permit. If he's legally entitled to one he should get it, then if he screws up he'll just have to face the consequences.
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    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    Those letters should not impede anyone from getting their permit. Anyone with a personal grudge can write a letter stating falsehoods in an attempt to ruin someones life.

    Albeit you have a valid concern, a person can not have a right taken away for something they might do.

    If we start to choose who gets a permit by public opinion then it is no longer a right.


    Disclaimer: I too would have concerns but until a person has lost their rights we can not discriminate.
    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    This would open the door for anyone to make allegations against anyone else. I could say you're a nut case and shouldn't be issued a permit. If he's legally entitled to one he should get it, then if he screws up he'll just have to face the consequences.
    Ok, maybe I didn't think this out or typw it out properly. Let me try again, but this time I'll ask, because I was assuming...and you know what that gets ya.

    IF you wrote an anonymous letter, then it would be up to the Issuing Agency to decide whether or not to investigate the allegations, yes or no?

    IF they decided not to, and issued a permit anyway, then oh well, you did your part. If the guys screws up and someone gets hurt or injured, you tried your best. If he doesn't screw up, then no harm no foul, and he got his permit anyhow, so it ended up costing you a stamp.

    IF they decide to investigate, that doesn't mean they won't give him a permit, or you guys are right, ANYONE could write a letter and ruin someone's day/chance at a permit/life/reputation, etc.

    BUT -- if they investigate and find that he's still worthy of a permit, then you've done your due dilligence, and for whatever reason, they don't see him as being unworthy or a threat.

    IF they investigate AND decide not to issue, then it's because he CLEARLY shouldn't get one, right? I mean, that would mean that they found out that he's unstable, abusing drugs, etc, right? And since it was anonymous, it's not like this unstable druggie can then link it back to you and think about exacting his revenge.

    But we'd have potential fodder for the anti crowd nipped in the bud.

    ----------
    Now, all that having been said, is it still not a great idea? I'm asking as much for myself as for the OP, because you two make excellent points about it.




    Edited to add: he already said the potential permitee abuses Rx drugs. I don'tt know what kind, but if it's something that could alter or affect reasoning, reaction, etc...well you're not supposed to mix alcohol with firearms, and here in NC you can't have any drugs in your system unless prescribed to you, obtained legally, and only in THERAPUTIC DOSAGE in the bloodstream. So I'm just wondering if by simply abusing drugs, he's already screwed up his chance to operate/have a permit with his state?
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    If I knew for a fact that he was abusing drugs (prescription or not, doesn't matter) and drinking excessively, I'd have some serious concerns about his carrying a gun. Notifying LE of your concerns may or may not bring about an investigation but if it does, the outcome is their's to decide. You have to do what you feel is right.
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    What if HE gets killed because, in your opinion, he shouldn't be allowed to exercise his right-to-carry?[/QUOTE]

    Somehow to me the terms drug abuser and alcoholic don't quite fit with right to carry. If he's really a friend or relative as you state, talk to him and voice your concerns. You might save his life, or mine . . .
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