Lending a gun

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Thread: Lending a gun

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Lending a gun

    What would be the legalities of lending a gun to a friend who is being stalked by an ex-boyfriend for self protection?

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  3. #2
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    I rekon that would depend on your local laws, if you have any.

    People lend others guns all the time. I dont see it as a big deal.

    Now, if you were in NYC or Chicago, it might be an offense worthy of hanging.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  4. #3
    DM2
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    That doesn't sound like a good idea to me. You'd probably be better off taking her to the range for training and having her obtain a firearm legally for herself. Lending a firearm when the probability of it being used defensively is high just doesn't make much sense to me. It could be trouble for both of you especially since the intent for the lending is to possibly do harm.

    Just my opinion because I'm definitely not a legal expert.
    DM2
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    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    I called the relevant authorities here in MD about that issue. No problems here with lending to someone who can legally own it otherwise. I suspect that is probably the case in other states that don't require a firearms card for purchase, but of course you should verify that...

    Good luck to your friend.
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  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kazzaerexys View Post
    I called the relevant authorities here in MD about that issue. No problems here with lending to someone who can legally own it otherwise. I suspect that is probably the case in other states that don't require a firearms card for purchase, but of course you should verify that...

    Good luck to your friend.
    If Maryland allows it, I'd bet dollars to donuts PA allows it

  7. #6
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    Its funny how different people see things.

    If a friend of mine came up to me and stated that she/feared for their life because their significant other or ex had threatened them, the last thing I am going to do is turn them away helpless.

    I would lend them a gun, but more importantly I would ensure that they could properly use it and I would also insure that they knew the law and the laws of self defense inside and out. If I had to take them out to the range to teach them, so be it, that is what I would do.

    I would also take them to the responsible Police Dept and have them issue an order of protection. We all know that for the most part they are as worthless as the paper it is written on as far as actual protection, but what it will do is show that you tried to go the legal route in the event of an actual self defense shoot, and it does establish a paper trail that will go to your advantage. Filing a police report along with the Protection Order will go a long way in court as it establishes a problem and shows that you were trying to do the wrong thing.

    I would advise that the person buy their own firearm, but I also understand that they are expensive enough that it could be awhile before they could afford one. In the mean time, if their lives are at risk, I would help them in any way that I could.

    FWIW, I have dealt with and continue to deal with these situations as an LEO and I have seen both sides of it. I take the issue very seriously and know of many cases over the years where death was involved. I have seen people that lived in such fear of an ex, that they were literally afraid to walk out on their porch or go grocery shopping, and it is a pitiful way to live.

    In most cases, the cops cannot respond until its too late and often after the violence has been done. I can't tell you the number if incidences that I have responded to, only to find the offender was gone when I got there or the caller was beaten to the point of needing medical attention or in some cases killed outright or dieing from injuries a few days later.

    In Arkansas the law was changed several years ago to include domestic battery as a justifiable self defense situation and it has been used successfully. In most cases, drugs or alcohol was used by the offender, and when the spouse had a paper trail that stood up in court, things usually went their way.

    Whatever you do, don't just lend them a gun and assume that they know how to use it. Make sure that you have all the bases covered and obey the golden rule. To to imagine yourself in their situation and see where and how they need help. Then do it.

    If you are too scared to provide the proper help, then at least find someone that can and do it properly. If you are worried about lending a gun because of the laws or legal ramifications of it, you could lend them the money to buy one and take them there to do it. Often, people have no idea of how to even do that.

    As for the legality's of it, you'll need to check the laws of your locality to your own satisfaction because they can be different even from one county to the next, and all the advice that you get from others on the net is worthless unless they live close to you because there are lots and lots of laws and the only ones that matter are the ones that apply to you.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  8. #7
    Distinguished Member Array GWRedDragon's Avatar
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    It would be legal here in the great Commonwealth of Virginia. It probably is in PA as well but your best bet is to check the state code.

    As for the situation, I certainly wouldn't want to just hand someone a pistol and say good luck. I think HotGuns has it right: if you really want to help it needs to be a coordinated effort. The person has to really want help, and after you know that is the case you should take them to the police and have them file a restraining order, etc. If the situation is severe enough to warrant a firearm, it also would be a good idea for your friend to stay awhile at someplace the stalker doesn't know about. Helping to get her out of there may be the best solution.

    Just make sure their want of escape is genuine. The last thing you want is for him to try to kill her, you to shoot him in her defense, and then her to testify that you murdered him in cold blood.
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    Distinguished Member Array tiwee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWRedDragon View Post
    ...
    Just make sure their want of escape is genuine. The last thing you want is for him to try to kill her, you to shoot him in her defense, and then her to testify that you murdered him in cold blood.
    Good comment. This applies to the entire situation. Always good to get another friend involved besides yourself. Perhaps the situation may not be seen the same by a friend of yours.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    What hotguns said,I will not leave a friend in fear for their life without protection.
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    Senior Member Array dnowell's Avatar
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    Make sure this person files for a restraining order - maybe even make that a precondition for lending the gun. You have to help your friends, but if something happens you need to be protected. Documentation showing that she was in genuine danger will help if it goes to court. Imagine lawyers running the line that you escalated the situation by introducing a gun. You need to create documentation NOW that a gun is appropriate.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    God forbid your friend had to defend herself, you may not see that gun for a while it could end up in a evidence locker for a while.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
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  13. #12
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    And if that gun does end up in the evidence locker then it has done its job.

    A small price to pay to protect a life.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  14. #13
    Senior Member Array dgg9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pro2A View Post
    What would be the legalities of lending a gun to a friend who is being stalked by an ex-boyfriend for self protection?
    I can dig up the PA statute, but I don't think you can give possession of your firearm to anyone who doesn't have a PA LTCF.

    All that aside, you have a huge legal downside in this case since there's a high probability it will be used. Far better for her to buy her own gun.

    ETA: here's the PA statute. IANAL, but it appears to me that you can't lend someone a gun to carry unless he/she has a PA LTCF, but you can lend a gun to someone if that gun stays entirely in her residence or place of business. If I'm misreading this, feel free to correct:


    TITLE 18
    PA CRIMES CODES


    §6115. Loans on, or Lending or Giving Firearms Prohibited.

    (a) Offense defined.—No person shall make any loan secured by mortgage, deposit or pledge of a firearm, nor, except as provided in subsection (b), shall any person lend or give a firearm to another or otherwise deliver a firearm contrary to the provisions of this subchapter.

    (b) Exception.—

    (1) Subsection (a) shall not apply if any of the following apply:

    (i) The person who receives the firearm is licensed to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to licenses).

    (ii) The person who receives the firearm is exempt from licensing.

    (iii) The person who receives the firearm is engaged in a hunter safety program certified by the Pennsylvania Game Commission or a firearm training program or competition sanctioned or approved by the National Rifle Association

    (iv) The person who receives the firearm meets all of the following

    (A) Is under 18 years of age.

    (B) Pursuant to section 6110.1 (relating to possession of firearm by minor) is under the supervision, guidance and instruction (if a responsible individual who.

    (I) is ‘21 years of age or older; and

    (II) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm tinder section 6105 (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms)

    (v) The person who receives the firearm is lawfully hunting or trapping and is in compliance with the provisions of Title 34 (relating to game)

    (vi) A bank or other chartered lending institution is able to adequately secure firearms in its possession.

    (2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the transfer of a firearm under 20 Pa CS. Ch. 21 (relating to interstate succession) or by bequest if the individual receiving the firearm is not precluded from owning or possessing a firearm under section 6105

    (3) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the loaning or giving of a firearm to another in one’s dwelling or place of business if the firearm is retained within the dwelling or place of business.

    (Repealed and added by L 1995, Spec. Sess 1, Act 17(8), eff 10/11/95)


    http://www.acslpa.org/pa_uniform_firearms_act.htm

  15. #14
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    I too agree with HotGuns, never abandon a friend that needs help. I am not familiar with PA law but here in North Carolina if you file a restraining order against someone the sheriff may issue a temporary CCW, something else you may want to check. Hope things work out for your friend.
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  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    I too agree with HotGuns, never abandon a friend that needs help. I am not familiar with PA law but here in North Carolina if you file a restraining order against someone the sheriff may issue a temporary CCW, something else you may want to check. Hope things work out for your friend.
    They just passed that law here. Thanks for the help guys

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