.380 Popularity vs. Perceived Lack of Power - Page 3

.380 Popularity vs. Perceived Lack of Power

This is a discussion on .380 Popularity vs. Perceived Lack of Power within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Miami Florida Burger King Shootout Results. Thug using .380 Cal. weapon Dead CWP Citizen using .40 Cal. weapon Alive...

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Thread: .380 Popularity vs. Perceived Lack of Power

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array puncho's Avatar
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    Miami Florida Burger King Shootout Results.

    Thug using .380 Cal. weapon Dead
    CWP Citizen using .40 Cal. weapon Alive


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puncho View Post
    Miami Florida Burger King Shootout Results.

    Thug using .380 Cal. weapon Dead
    CWP Citizen using .40 Cal. weapon Alive
    Much detail is missing in those broad strokes. It matters what's hit, how it's hit and where one gets hit. Without knowing basic details, it's impossible to know whether this is a vilification against a caliber or aim.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array puncho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Much detail is missing in those broad strokes..It matters what's hit, how it's hit and where one gets hit. Without knowing basic details, it's impossible to know whether this is a vilification against a caliber or aim.
    Thug with ski mask walks into BK holding a.380 Cal. gun while demanding the money. Good guy draws gun and confronts thug telling him to drop his weapon. Thug fires at Good Guy wounding him in arm and chest, good guy returns fire with .40 Cal. gun and he drops the thug dead at the register! Good guy is alive and recovered.

    I carry a .380 when I can't carry a larger gun, but don't tell me carrying a larger round doesn't increase my chances of survival. Proper placement and aim with a spear will defeat any gun or Cal. round...

  4. #34
    Member Array GoldenSaber's Avatar
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    I throw a pretty mean spear myself but it is hard to hide in my pants.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array puncho's Avatar
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  6. #36
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    The .380 is in fact is about the same caliber as 9mm. These pocket guns have become very popular. Ammunition is in short supply but should be easing up soon. Most 9mm FMJ is 115 gr. 380 auto FMJ is normally 119 gr.

    Pocket gun recoil: That is another subject.
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  7. #37
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    Is the 380ACP a serious self defense caliber or a wimpy also-ran?? This will never be argued to death. It is worse than the 9mm vs. 45ACP debate . The Jews and Arabs will be best buddies before we can reach an agreement on the usefulness of the .380.

    Further fueling the fire: modern .380 ammo exceeds the ballistic of the 9mm Makarov, pride of the USSR military and the KGB. Even from the very short barreled P-3AT or LCP, the .380 matches the 9mm Mak.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array taseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puncho View Post
    Thug with ski mask walks into BK holding a.380 Cal. gun while demanding the money. Good guy draws gun and confronts thug telling him to drop his weapon. Thug fires at Good Guy wounding him in arm and chest, good guy returns fire with .40 Cal. gun and he drops the thug dead at the register! Good guy is alive and recovered.

    I carry a .380 when I can't carry a larger gun, but don't tell me carrying a larger round doesn't increase my chances of survival. Proper placement and aim with a spear will defeat any gun or Cal. round...
    you forget to mention the CWP holder hit the BG with like 9 rounds

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by obxned View Post
    Is the 380ACP a serious self defense caliber or a wimpy also-ran?? This will never be argued to death. It is worse than the 9mm vs. 45ACP debate . The Jews and Arabs will be best buddies before we can reach an agreement on the usefulness of the .380.

    Further fueling the fire: modern .380 ammo exceeds the ballistic of the 9mm Makarov, pride of the USSR military and the KGB. Even from the very short barreled P-3AT or LCP, the .380 matches the 9mm Mak.
    Many are killed by .22. It is really up to the shooters skill under extreme conditions. A pocket gun with .380 or 9mm subcompact is going to recoil not to mention how exact the trigger is pulled.
    Last edited by SIGP250; August 6th, 2009 at 01:37 AM.
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  10. #40
    Senior Member Array puncho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taseal View Post
    you forget to mention the CWP holder hit the BG with like 9 rounds

    So like the CWP was a better shot, or a .40 Cal. round has more stopping power which stopped the thug from firing his .380 Cal. gun anymore?

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array taseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puncho View Post
    So like the CWP was a better shot, or a .40 Cal. round has more stopping power which stopped the thug from firing his .380 Cal. gun anymore?

    IIRC BG's gun actually jammed or something..

    if you'd like, I can provide few articles where a BG was shot multiple times with a .40 and kept on fighting.

  12. #42
    Senior Member Array puncho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taseal View Post
    IIRC BG's gun actually jammed or something..

    if you'd like, I can provide few articles where a BG was shot multiple times with a .40 and kept on fighting.
    Provide them please.

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puncho View Post
    Thug fires at Good Guy wounding him in arm and chest, good guy returns fire with .40 Cal. gun and he drops the thug dead at the register! Good guy is alive and recovered.
    Depends on how many, where and how the bullets strike. Unless that's known, one cannot say what the deciding factors were in a given exchange.

    I carry a .380 when I can't carry a larger gun, but don't tell me carrying a larger round doesn't increase my chances of survival.
    I'm telling you nothing you don't already know. Shot placement beats misses every day of the week.

    I am simply saying that sweeping assumptions are what they are.

    And until a given exchange is known for what it was, from an autopsy standpoint, it's hard to make many valid assumptions about whether what occurred was due to caliber or placement or the clothing/junk another was wearing, or the angle at which one was struck, the body structure of the combatants, body structure where the bullet(s) struck, effect of caliber/load/competence as it affects placement of 2nd/subsequent rounds, or some other factors, or a combination (which is more likely).

    A person can be struck 16 times in which each and every bullet misses vital organs, arteries, veins and then survive, while another can be struck once in the heart and die.

    The point is, details matter when attempting to compare two specific wound patterns in an actual shooting. It's because most everyone has paltry details about any given exchange that fuels "caliber wars," since so few have any facts about the specific circumstances to contribute. What's left is supposition, assumptions, biases. Little more.

    That said, in a static experiment that controls for specific factors, then in THAT situation of all things being equal, larger caliber makes a bigger hole, sure. But, ain't nothin' absolute, if you recall some shotgun load experiments involving buckshot, in which #1 showed better penetration and wound channel creation than #00 and #4. The point is, in a given specific shooting, we don't know what we don't know.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; August 6th, 2009 at 01:03 AM. Reason: spelling
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #44

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    The only statement I would make negative about a .380 ACP is that I would use another firearm for home SD. Hopefully this does not hijack the thread into a shotgun vs handgun thread.

    IMO, as a handgun, for home SD, I would start at 9mm and up (especially when you can get additional capacity and a more powerful caliber / cartridge vs typical CC .380).

    For EDC / CC, being armed is critical, the .380 ACP round will do the trick and is often easier to carry then say a 9mm.
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