.380 Popularity vs. Perceived Lack of Power - Page 4

.380 Popularity vs. Perceived Lack of Power

This is a discussion on .380 Popularity vs. Perceived Lack of Power within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; For all the .380 haters out there keep in mind that it makes 230ft lbs of muzzle energy. Thats more then the cap & ball ...

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Thread: .380 Popularity vs. Perceived Lack of Power

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array thebigdl86's Avatar
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    For all the .380 haters out there keep in mind that it makes 230ft lbs of muzzle energy. Thats more then the cap & ball revolver that wild bill hickock used and i believe he stopped many men with that!
    "Anyone worth shooting, is probably worth shooting several times."


  2. #47
    Senior Member Array thebigdl86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puncho View Post
    It's time we dumb this down.

    Nissan Murano=.22
    Honda Pilot=.25
    Chevy Colorado= .32
    Ford Ranger 6 Cyl.= .380
    Ford F150=.38 Special
    Ford F150 4X4= .38 Plus P
    Ford F250= .40 Cal
    Ford F250&350 4X4= .45 Cal

    how is a honda pilot eqaul to a .25 if the ford ranger is a .380? The pilot is a full size 4wd suv and its quite powerfull. And you list the .22 below the .25? The .25 is bigger yes but the .22's balistics are far greater.
    "Anyone worth shooting, is probably worth shooting several times."

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenSaber View Post
    My P3AT worked perfectly right out of the box. ....snip..... These are defense guns... not range or competition guns.
    Wish mine did. Hard to rack slide, wife could not originally. FTF 1st rd out of mag, won't go into battery. Rest of feeds are OK. Fluff and buff improved slide but not FTF 1st rd. Mag catch wore out in 6 mths. Mags fall out. Replaced catch. Mags still fall out when racking slide. Currently I will not carry it and would prefer if my wife had the
    .45 out instead of the p3at. Not looking for a tack driver, though it is plenty accurate. Snappy but accurate. I just want something I can trust, and currently the p3at is not someting I trust. I am still working on it so hopefully I can get the bugs out. But for what I paid for it, should there be that many bugs? If I cannot fix it I'll send it back to KT, at least there CS is good. This is my experience, YMMV. As far as the round, it's better than nothing. I started off with .45, switched to 9mm to lessen recoil, bought the .380 for my wife and when I cannot carry fullsize. I'd trust the round if I could get the gun straightened out.

  4. #49
    Member Array Random's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puncho View Post
    Thug with ski mask walks into BK holding a.380 Cal. gun while demanding the money. Good guy draws gun and confronts thug telling him to drop his weapon. Thug fires at Good Guy wounding him in arm and chest, good guy returns fire with .40 Cal. gun and he drops the thug dead at the register! Good guy is alive and recovered.
    From my (admittedly limited) experience, those sorts of thugs don't really spend a lot of time at the range practicing.

  5. #50
    Member Array GoldenSaber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random View Post
    From my (admittedly limited) experience, those sorts of thugs don't really spend a lot of time at the range practicing.
    Hate to say it... but there are a lot of law abiding carriers that don't either. They get a permit, buy a gun, shoot it once, and suddenly they're trained. I'm just sayin...

  6. #51
    Member Array Defensive Arms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    .380s require a slide/frame size that so closely compares to the small 9mm options (Kahr PM, Keltec PF9, Robar, etc.)...why bother? If the recoil of a 9mm is too much for a shooter to handle, okay. But otherwise, I don't see the point.
    ^Agreed.

    Pistols like the Kahr PM9 have rendered the .380 virtually obsolete.

    1. Virtually no difference in size and weight
    2. 9mm ammo costs considerably less than .380, and is far more readily available
    3. The blowback operating system of many .380's often produces greater recoil than a recoil operated 9mm
    4. Superior stopping power of the 9mm cartridge

  7. #52
    Member Array Defensive Arms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASSA9 View Post
    The loves right here friend
    By the way most "experts" are American IMO
    The rest of the wold likes the .380 and 9mm
    Actually, the .380 is now virtually extinct as a law enforcement cartridge in Europe.

    As Massad Ayoob has pointed out, with the noticeable increase in crime rates and terrorism in Europe in the 1960's, police forces there realized they needed more powerful handguns than the .380.

    The 9mm is now the standard for European law enforcement agencies.

  8. #53
    Senior Member Array puncho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defensive Arms View Post
    To my knowledge, there isn't a law enforcement agency or military unit in the country that issues or allows their personnel to use the Ruger LCP as a primary duty firearm.

    I also have never personally met an LEO or military man who would even WANT to carry the LCP as a primary, though you'll probably find a few somewhere.

    It was designed mainly as a BUG, and is also suitable for civilian concealed carry by people who aren't interested in packing a handgun that will reliably end a threat.

    I might consider one as a BUG, but I wouldn't carry it as a primary duty or concealed carry gun. 9mm is my self-defense minimum, and I much prefer .45 ACP.
    The above was posted in another thread, but really belongs here too.
    Last edited by JD; August 8th, 2009 at 12:36 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tags

  9. #54
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defensive Arms View Post
    To my knowledge, there isn't a law enforcement agency or military unit in the country that issues or allows their personnel to use the Ruger LCP as a primary duty firearm.

    I also have never personally met an LEO or military man who would even WANT to carry the LCP as a primary, though you'll probably find a few somewhere.

    It was designed mainly as a BUG, and is also suitable for civilian concealed carry by people who aren't interested in packing a handgun that will reliably end a threat.

    I might consider one as a BUG, but I wouldn't carry it as a primary duty or concealed carry gun. 9mm is my self-defense minimum, and I much prefer .45 ACP.
    Quote Originally Posted by puncho View Post
    The above was posted in another thread, but really belongs here too.
    That might have to do with the fact that LEOs and Military generally don't need to conceal their duty guns. Why carry a tiny little .380 when you don't have to worry about trying to hide a G22 etc?

    Is the pocket .380 the end all be all to CC guns? No. But it does have a nice niche that's hard to fill even out of the pocket 9s.

    And while this thread is more about caliber than the LCP, I probably wouldn't buy an LCP, but not due to the caliber. I would stick with a Sig 238, 232, more modern Colt .380s, or the Beretta Cheetah if I wanted another .380. If the Beretta Cheetah was a little less edgy I'd actually carry the double stack version as primary with no hesitation what so ever.

    At one point in time I posted on this forum that I could never carry a .380, well in my case never came along pretty quick when I needed a small carry gun to carry at work where a larger gun just wouldn't work.

    What people need to remember is that there are different makes and models, and pending on what you get, you can have plenty of different experiences and based on mine with some of the pocket 9s, 40s, and even the polymer .380s, I'll stick with my steel framed .380 mouse guns when I need something smaller than my 1911, XDM, P7, or something thinner than my .357Mag J-Frame.

  10. #55
    Senior Member Array puncho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    That might have to do with the fact that LEOs and Military generally don't need to conceal their duty guns.
    The under cover guys do, and they don't carry a .380 Cal. gun as a primary!

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by puncho View Post
    The under cover guys do, and they don't carry a .380 Cal. gun as a primary!
    You can vouch for every UC LEO on the streets? Man, and I thought I knew a lot of people.

  12. #57
    Member Array Defensive Arms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    That might have to do with the fact that LEOs and Military generally don't need to conceal their duty guns. Why carry a tiny little .380 when you don't have to worry about trying to hide a G22 etc?
    ^Not true.

    Many police departments even regulate what firearms their officers can carry OFF duty, and as internationally recognized law enforcement handgun authority Massad Ayoob (a career LEO himself) has documented, many departments will NOT allow their officers to carry a .380 (or smaller) even when they're OFF duty---because of the .380's notorious inability to stop perpetrators.

    According to statistics compiled from police records throughout the nation, .380's only stop assailants about 63% of the time, whereas the .40 S&W that is the most commonly used LE cartridge today, has a 93% stop success rate.

    .380's are for people who aren't interested in a self-defense firearm that will reliably stop attackers.

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defensive Arms View Post
    .380's are for people who aren't interested in a self-defense firearm that will reliably stop attackers.
    That's about as worthwhile as saying .45 is the only caliber a "real" man choses.

    Disinterest, eh? Or, perhaps there are those who must manage situations where one cannot bring a larger weapon. Almost certainly without exception, everyone's interested, but circumstances don't always allow preference to outweigh necessity.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defensive Arms View Post
    According to statistics compiled from police records throughout the nation, .380's only stop assailants about 63% of the time, whereas the .40 S&W that is the most commonly used LE cartridge today, has a 93% stop success rate.
    Sure, but 63% is a heck of a lot better than the 0% you get if you leave your gun at home because it is too big/heavy to carry.
    "Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
    ---Carry options: G26/MTAC, PF9/MiniTuck, PPK/Pocket, USP40/OWB---
    ---NOTE: I am not an expert. If I ever start acting like a know-it-all, please call me on it immediately. ---

  15. #60
    JD
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    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, I still can't find anyone willing to go down range and let me shoot at them. ( I know that's lame, but it's the first time I've ever used that argument and in all honesty, it's crap, but still true)

    I'm not arguing that the .380 is better than a 9 or .40, but it's not exactly a poke in the eye either.

    .380's are for people who aren't interested in a self-defense firearm that will reliably stop attackers.
    Sure, whatever you say.

    And while some depts that regulate off duty carry may not allow a .380, there are some that do allow it, and others that don't regulate off duty carry and off duty officers DO carry .380s.

    I've met under cover officers and off duty cops that carry .22s all the way up to 10mm. Using a percentage of a percentage doesn't make it true for all.

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