Need Help and/or Advice

This is a discussion on Need Help and/or Advice within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I have two two shotguns that need work. One is a single shot 20ga and the other is a SxS 10ga. The 20ga is a ...

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Thread: Need Help and/or Advice

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    Need Help and/or Advice

    I have two two shotguns that need work. One is a single shot 20ga and the other is a SxS 10ga. The 20ga is a Western Field and the 10ga is a Hem* (can read it all) with "Laminated Steel Barrels" (or something like that, I'm at work now (shhhhh, don't tell the boss ).

    The barrel on the 20ga looks like worm wood. I would like to smooth the metal out but with shotguns, I don't want to weaken the metal (so it won't KaBOOM). Can it be done? And how?

    For the receiver, should I use wool or a scrub pad to try to get it cleaned up and then a dremal to polish it up?

    The 10ga needs to have the stock removed and then redone. It's been either cracked or broke in the past.

    I will try to take pictures tonight to try to help make sense of this post. But if you have any ideas in the meantime, that would be great.

    Wayne

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  3. #2
    Member Array JCM298's Avatar
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    The 10 ga may be Damascus. If it is, great care must be taken. I would not shoot a Damascus gun. The one I have, a black powder gun, is a wall hanger.

    The Western Field was made for Sears or Wards. I think most were made by Winchester.

    John

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    I think John not only knows more than me on shotties but also could have nailed the barrel appearance.

    Certainly a pic or two later would be handy anways.
    Chris - P95
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    Member Array chiefs-special-guy's Avatar
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    In the US we have no proof house, so you are basically on your own in some ways. Damascus guns can be perfectly safe for nitro proof- many are great shooters.
    when you say "worm wood" i am concerned- you mean pits?? From rust? It is difficult to judge how deep pits are without a bit of equipment you are unlikely to have. Barrels may be lapped to remove pits. For an english gun, this does not take it out of proof unless you lap out to the next interval, which admittedly is very small- about 2 one-thousands of an inch if I recall. Generally, a shotgun barrel is thinnest at a high pressure point about 6-8 inches from the breech. A real minimum thickness is about 25 thousands- thirty is better, but some in proof guns are almost down to 20. You cannot determine thickness except with an internal gauge moving it about since no barrel is perfectly concentric. Why not tube the 10 bore gun with some 12 bore tubes- champs or briley fitted ones. then shoot it all you wish in total safety with cheaper ammunition. Make sure the guns are on face and do not have loose ribs (try ringing the barrels). If none of this makes sense, talk to a good shotgun smith. Good luck!
    Six for sure...Uh, I mean Five. Five for sure..

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    Okay, here is what I meant by "worm wood". First, let me apologize for my lack of photography skills:









    and one of the 10ga, I will need to get better lighting to show it in detail. My house at the moment is not photo friendly:



    Here is the best that I could make out on the 10ga:

    Mangrapids
    Excell JT
    Heminway London Laminated Steel

    Thanks for the help all :).

    Oh, the reason that I won't get the 10ga sleeved for 12ga is because, well, it's a 10ga . The 20, 10 and 410 that I have (old) may just become wall hangers... the only bad thing is that now I would have to buy a house with a fireplace.

    Wayne

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    Wayne - reiterating that I am no shottie expert but best I can tell that ''wormy'' surface is intentional but neither does it strike me as a Damascus either.

    Rust pitting is much more aggressive in appearance whereas this has a seemingly intentional patterning. Be interested to hear from the guru's.
    Chris - P95
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    Chris,

    The "worm" patterns are on the 20ga and only on one side. I should have remembered to add some information.

    The 20ga could have been in water or in dirt/rotten wood. It was from the guy across the street that died a couple of years ago and I just now (withing a half a year) ended up with the gun (of which I should have gotten earlier). I haven't been told the whole story. It's been shot in the condition that it's in with no ill affects, but still would like to get it smooth and then I'm going to try my hand at non-electric nickle plating lol (just got my Brownells catalog).

    As for the 10ga, I have it apart now (dang, just realized that I have three projects going, a No. 1 Mk 3, the 20ga and now the 10ga). The 10ga, besides the stock (butt stock) is not in all that bad shape. Needs to be sanded/glass beaded but I don't know if I can do that with a SxS. I need to buy a 10ga brush so I can clean out the bores but right now, they do look to be pitted . I think with the 10ga I will take to a smith to look at. I am afraid that it won't be fireable (safety) and to me that is sad cause I like to fire them, not just look at them. And, it's a 10ga .

    Wayne

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    Be nice to get the 10G serviceable that's for sure - but yeah let a smith take a peek and give opinion. problem often is how much money to put to old guns.

    The 20G - ahhh well then I see what you mean. Does then sound like a storage problem if one sided. Still tho does not look like classic pitting so, wonder where it did sit for so long. Maybe of course someone already did some work to reduce pitting, which could have smoothed things out.

    Looks like a lot of metal removal needed tho to get rid of that and so maybe not practicable.
    Chris - P95
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    Chris,

    problem often is how much money to put to old guns
    True, very true. I figure that I will get a smith to look at that one also to see if it can safety fire without exploding. If so, then it will just be a "story" to tell of an old gun.

    As for the 10ga, that is the one that I'm really hoping will be serviceable and that the butt stock can be fixed. I'm seen work workers doing great things that are amazing on cracked/broken stocks but then you get into price.

    I don't know, I've always been a handgun guy, have 23 now (counting the BP's, 2). I thought I never liked/wanted rifles, now have 11 because I started a mil-sup collection and SKS collection, never really thought about shotguns, now I have 5. The only thing that I want is for all to work safely.

    So now, I am finding myself into another aspect of gun ownership, actually being able to fix, refurb., and maintain my firearms and now knowing that all that is given to me isn't going to be collector/museum quality so I need to learn how to restore/fix.

    Dang, just thought of something. Get bored with one aspect, there is another willing to take it's place. I will admit that I got the "home gun smithing bug" when I took apart my 500A and fixed it by myself. And then you have the fact that you have to take down old mil-sups to clean the cosmoline, and then you have the fact of replacing old springs with ones that wolff says should work, and they do (Wolff took a BIG risk on my request about 2 years ago. I emailed them and said that I had a Star Model Super. I needed to replace the springs. They said, "ah, okay" and then asked me to send them the originals. I did, they made springs for me and sent them and the originals back... no probs what so ever with their springs).

    lol... sorry. Just excited about having some projects, getting the No. 1 Mk. 3 back together (putting on anther stock until I fix the one that it came with, cracked), getting the 20ga and the 10ga into working order, and then, hopefully by the end of summer.... just having a grand old time with them.

    Wayne

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    I used to do quite a few project guns way back - now somewhat lazy I confess.

    Small scale smithing I will still do, having got enough tools for most jobs but - despite being an engineer will only go so far. Bit like with cameras (old type) and clocks/watches - I try to know my limitations LOL!

    That spring thing with Wolff was impressive - they seem to be a great outfit.

    What had to be done to the Mossy - your first project by sound of it?
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    I wouldn't shoot the 10g, with modern loads. Have your smith check your barrel, & trigger group, and if it passes, you might check out some "softer" CASS loads. Just my personal pref- you might be just fine.

    Both should be checked for internal pitting, mic'ed for spec, checked for hardness & stress fractures, and a spring replacement, at least. A rub down with Marvel Mystery Oil and bronze wool is a good start to de-gunking. Have fun!

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    Thanks Rob. I may go and get some tomorrow (MMO and Bronze Wool). I'm not afraid to "harm" the shotguns, I don't think that they can be further harmed.

    Chris, the 500A wouldn't chamber a shell, the loading gate wasn't going all the way down. I took it apart and reinstalled the loading gate and made it work. I really didn't know what caused it but all I know is that it worked by being reinstalled.

    Wayne

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