April 7th, 2006 04:34 PM
Stupid situation I got myself into
No...NOT ME!!! ...I sure would not have had too much trouble (at all) getting myself out of this particular scenario but, I thought I would post it because there were two stories in (one in PA & one in Ohio) of folks getting physically attacked while blocked in by a vehicle...I guess about 2 years ago.
This poor guy is so off his proper mindset that it's really almost pathetic.
He typed this whole story out...& had plenty of time to "mull" it all over and he STILL (obviously) does not know which end is up.
Truly Sad. He is lucky that he is not wearing a "tire iron" as a new hat.
Here is his story:
Maybe the first error I made was going to Kroger at 2:30 in the morning. But hey, it's a nice neighborhood and I have never had any problems. Right?
I walked out with two bags of groceries and went to my car that was parked right next to the entrance. Another shopper had parked across from my car so that our vehicles were nose to nose. I walked through the parking lot and popped my trunk to put the bags into it. As I closed the trunk an older Taurus sedan came flying into the parking lot and made a beeline across the empty parking rows to where I was standing next to my trunk. Before I could react the guy had stopped behind my car and blocked me in - I am talking about stopping six inches from my rear bumper so there would be little or no room to maneuver. I turned to get into my car as he pulled up and suddenly realized I was stuck.
As soon as the car stopped the guy leaned out of the window (he looked very sketchy) and said in a direct voice "Can I have ten dollars?" He was about five yards from me and I could not see his hands. I said "No" very clearly. He sat there for another second and said "Did you say yes?" I then said in a very forceful tone "Pull away from my car right now!" He pulled his car about fifteen feet around and immediately started the same spiel on a guy who had just pulled up and gotten out of his car. I got the hell out of there.
Call me paranoid for thinking of this but I was worried the guy might follow me. So I kept checking in my rear view mirror as I drove down the road away from the Kroger. The guy was waiting to turn out of the Kroger but there was no oncoming traffic to keep him from turning. Once I was near the next intersection where I was making a turn I saw his car finally pull out of the parking lot and come toward me. He made the same turn I did and drove far behind me for about a minute on a road that had no other traffic on it. From his earlier haste I thought this was a bit weird.
I was about a mile from my house so I prematurely turned into a connecting neighborhood with lots of side streets and turns. No more was seen of the fellow in the Taurus.
OK, the weird thing was that as my hackles were getting up about this guy and I was starting to freak out I was not even thinking about the pistol in my pocket holster...Which is very bad.
I should have at least had my hand closer.
And in case any of you think I am being paranoid about a guy asking me for money in a manner like I owe it to him in the middle of the night, there have been several robberies and at least one kidnapping (friend of mine) and shooting within three miles of my house that have occurred with similar setups.
What I should have done (barring not shopping at Kroger that late) was walk back into the store as soon as I saw a car driving that frantically into the parking lot and headed straight for me.
The big problem was that I was very aware of my surroundings - as far as pedestrians were concerned. I was actively scanning for anyone on foot and the car caught me totally off guard.
I don't know what that idiot was doing by aggressively blocking someone's car in a dark parking lot...is NOT the way to ask for $10.
QKShooter Note: ~ Well, we have a LOT of "new to carry" members here these days so.........
April 7th, 2006 04:53 PM
My '93 GMC would tear large chunks off a Taurus- say, "NO!", get in start up, and let him see the reverse lights. Cell out- if he doesn't move, call 911; if he starts to approach, with me blocked in- demonstrate that I have more low-end torque than he has mass.....
April 7th, 2006 05:39 PM
big trucks do give ya an edge in the vehicle VS. vehicle situations. seems watching out for cars is a good idea too. someone car run ya down as easy as ask for $10.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
April 7th, 2006 07:19 PM
I would be concerned getting into the car, as I feel it would limit my movement too much should the guy be armed.
I would likely have placed my car between me and him and asked him politely, but firmly to move his car as I was about to back out.
If the car concealed my actions well enough, I would put my hand towards my firearm.
Since carrying, I have grown accustomed to carrying my cell phone on my off-hand side and have been practicing using it in the off-hand as well, so that I can use the phone to dial 911 without complicating my draw any.
"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it
would be reasonable to shoot back with your own
Dalai Lama - May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times
April 7th, 2006 08:27 PM
I'd have to split the difference with the previous comments. Not that I would have thought this through if it was me in that situation, but...
I'd get into my car if I thought I could push his out of the way, otherwise I'm with Blinky. The car can put some good armor between you and an unarmed BG, but it is restricting in movement if you get stuck there. Plus, I never assume the BG is unarmed.
Barring a stronger vehicle, it does a great job of putting several feet between you and the BG and the BG's car. Gotta be cognisant of that other car, though. The chance it and any unseen occupants are involved in this is very possible.
The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD
April 7th, 2006 08:27 PM
Easy to pull this one apart from comfort of puter chair Must say tho yellow is not just watching pedestrian traffic - it is total awareness.
Admittedly he may have had only the briefest warning of the car and so little time but a reaction was needed, quick. That time of day does not suggest anyone stopping by for a social call! I would very quickly have hand on piece and not want to stay at rear of my vehicle but get it in between as cover. A picture of the layout would help in analysis.
Calling it in too would be given priority status even if after an escape.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
April 7th, 2006 08:40 PM
I wish and hope I could be as cool as you were, I wasn't there So im
not even going to try and critique your actions, But a comment, You
survived and that is what counts.
quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
April 7th, 2006 08:43 PM
No...This did NOT happen to me enigmaone!
My point is that this poor guy is still looking at this incident as a mildly nasty attempt to borrow $10.00.
Read his last line:
"I don't know what that idiot was doing by aggressively blocking someone's car in a dark parking lot...that is NOT the way to ask for $10."
In reality it was a positive, forceful threatening action VIA Vehicle with a psychological strong~arm attempt at common robbery.
This situation could have gone totally sour in a heartbeat.
There are other indicators in his text that will lead you to my same conclusion. This is exactly the way the actual physical assaults went down in Ohio & PA.
April 7th, 2006 10:43 PM
He didnt want ten bucks. He wanted the person to get their wallet out so he could take the wallet, the money, credit cards, all of it.
"I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong." Denny Crane:
April 8th, 2006 07:48 AM
I know I harp on this a lot, but, this illustrated my point. So here I go again.
Drive the largest vehicle you can afford. In this situation it may or may not have helped, but if it came down to a vehicle vs vehicle contest, mass, and torque are your friends.
April 8th, 2006 11:10 AM
April 8th, 2006 02:53 PM
He may have just wanted $10. His actions seemed intimidating enough that most folks may feel that they are being 'held up' and give him the $10 without a fight (that's what some folks tell us to do right? Not to resist?). In that case, the victim feels like they have just been robbed, but if no physical threat was made and the victim did not resist - the guy was merely pan handling.
Just a possibility. Something similar happened to a friend of mine here in Cincinnati. A guy forcibly entered her car and told her to give him a few hundred dollars. She gave him 20 and told him that was all she had (she was a college student at the time) - being scared out of her wits and afraid the guy might do something else. He just left.
She found the nearest Cinci police officer (no cell phone at the time) and explained what happened - she was visibly shaken and scared. The first questions the cop asked - Did he have a weapon? Well... no, not that I saw. Did he verbally threaten you in any way? Well... other than climbing into my car - no. Did you at anytime refuse? No... I was scared. Well 'mam - he was just panhandling then. A call to the police department and a sheriff's office confirmed the same thing.
That was several years ago. She now carries, is well trained, and I pity the guy who tries that stunt with her again.
April 8th, 2006 03:33 PM
This was middle of the night. The guy "asking" for $10 is probably looking to rob the guy. This may be one of the situations where distance and cover with a weapon held low and ready could quickly diffuse the situation. The BG could easily have had a weapon just below the line of sight so cover is important. People need to trust there instinct. If someone looks like they are up to no good, then odds are they are up to no good. This was not a simple bum on the street looking for a hand out.
NRA Life Member
"All That Later"
April 8th, 2006 03:55 PM
Brian - no way to know for sure - though I agree - this was not an ordinary bum.
At this point, the guy has not 'threatened' us - at least not in a way that would probably hold up in court. His actions seem suspicious and we believe that he 'may' have a weapon and may be trying to rob us - but this is pure speculation at this instance.
In Ohio, no legal way to draw your weapon unless you're first threatened and cannot retreat (duty to retreat). Again, in Ohio, if you drew your gun at this point, you'd be opening a big can of worms - because if an altercation did occur, you could possibly be seen as the aggressor. In either case - you would be breaking the law by brandishing when there was no evidence to be in 'fear of your life' and possibly escalating a non-lethal encounter.
I know state law varies - and I'm only familiar with Ohio/KY.
My action would be to step back to put some distance between myself and the bum, being ready to duck behind the car and draw if things turn for the worse. Turn my body so that I can quickly draw from concealment if need be and put my hand forward and say in a loud voice 'I cannot help you sir. Please move away from my vehicle.' At the same time, being aware of surroundings behind me. There is a car behind me and there may be accomplices - don't want to have tunnel vision. If he does not comply, use left hand to retrieve cell phone to call 911 while repeating previous command. If at any time, he looks ready to pull a weapon, my first priority would be to get behind car (no point in trying to out draw the guy) and then draw weapon to defend myself from said cover.
After this is over - remind myself to be more aware.
April 9th, 2006 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by joe/OH
Excuse me, someone climbs into a car and demands money and that's panhandling!
Those cops needed to staked to the beach at low tide, and then told don't worry about the incoming tide, because we call this "swimming"
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