Water Buffalo Caliber - Page 3

Water Buffalo Caliber

This is a discussion on Water Buffalo Caliber within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Treo Off topic but, I'd say the videographer who sat there and filmed that instead of putting a bullet in the Buffalo's ...

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 66
  1. #31
    OD*
    OD* is offline
    Moderator
    Array OD*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Coopersville
    Posts
    11,236
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Off topic but, I'd say the videographer who sat there and filmed that instead of putting a bullet in the Buffalo's head was far crueler than any hunter I've ever met.
    I could not agree more strongly.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."


  2. #32
    OD*
    OD* is offline
    Moderator
    Array OD*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Coopersville
    Posts
    11,236
    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Wow Hoss...Very cool.

    Agreed OD.
    Modern .45-70 is (!) available in loadings that are modern firearm specific not suggested nor designed for old timey Trapdoors and such from 100 yrs. ago.
    The modern ammo runs at high pressure and high velocity creating tremendous energy figures at the muzzle and out to as far as 200 yds.

    Again it very much depends on the ammo.
    Old timey gun ammo is out there as well and that stuff is low pressure but it is not the whole of the modern and current story for this chambering.

    - Janq
    Yep, I'm familiar with the 45/70 and their launching platforms, I have an 1890 trapdoor and a modern 1886 Brownchester.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  3. #33
    OD*
    OD* is offline
    Moderator
    Array OD*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Coopersville
    Posts
    11,236
    Quote Originally Posted by surefire7 View Post
    ...and you sure want penetration into the vitals.
    Exactly, and the 540 hammerhead punched end to end through a Cape, I say that's pretty impressive penetration.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    Yep. ^^

    The Hammerhead rounds by Garrett has ridiculous specs for energy, even those with relatively medium velocity figures (540 gr.).

    Geebus what a fun thread topic!

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  5. #35
    OD*
    OD* is offline
    Moderator
    Array OD*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Coopersville
    Posts
    11,236
    I've shot Randy's 415-GR (since upped to 420-GR) through my '86, they certainly let you know you ain't shootin' great grandpa's blackpowder loads.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,749
    Great thread, thanks to BikeRN. Good luck to you on your hunt, whatever you use. I've always had a fondness for big-bore, lever guns. Maybe someday I'll own one. I've heard that, the .45-70 is quite versatile for modern handloading.

    The demise of our nation's own buffalo at the muzzle of a .45-70, I think, makes the case that it is adequate enough for water buffalo, if the shooter does his part.

    Australian Water Buffalo range:







    I'm curious, what's a good trophy water buffalo? I mean, like, obviously the size of his horns; how big? Like a trophy mule deer would probably be 30" or better. A moose, depending on the species; 54"-60". I've read a lot about the African cape buffalo, but not the Australian water buffalo. Is it considered dangerous game?
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  7. #37
    Distinguished Member
    Array SleepingZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    ne
    Posts
    1,737
    Congrads on you future hunt.

    First check with game laws that pertain to the area you are going to hunt. Some game laws will have a minimum ft lbs of energy or bullet diameter or bullet weight that they may require, this alone may make your decision for you.

    If it were me and both choices were with-in game laws, I would pick the 375 H&H, it is a classic, ammo can be found world wide. Water buffalo may call for a "solid" bullet for proper penetration, I don't know if the 45-70 offers that.

    As fine of a caliber as the 45-70 is, I think the 375 H&H is in a different league.

    Hunting something as large as a buff, I would want a repeating rifle, something like a Ruger MK77, it has controlled round feeding, and a big honking extractor, both fairly important on a large game rifle.

    Ruger does make a proprietary 375 Ruger caliber, but in my opinion, I think most of those are more of a novelty round, they don't offer much more than the H&H, which has celebrated many, many birthdays. With the 375 Ruger who knows if it will be around in 10 years.

    Not sure, but I think CZ makes some affordable 375 H&H's

    Are you going to use a scope or iron sights??? If you are using a scope, make sure your gun has a set of back-up iron sights, they may just save the trip if something would happen to your glass.

    Does buffalo taste like chicken?????


    Z
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array surefire7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    colorado
    Posts
    533
    Biker RN- Good luck on your hunt and whatever boomer you end up using. +1 on the plains game safari in your future. PM me if you want to talk africa.
    "Good decisions come from experience;
    experience comes from bad decisions"

  9. #39
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Great thread, thanks to BikeRN. Good luck to you on your hunt, whatever you use. I've always had a fondness for big-bore, lever guns. Maybe someday I'll own one. I've heard that, the .45-70 is quite versatile for modern handloading.

    The demise of our nation's own buffalo at the muzzle of a .45-70, I think, makes the case that it is adequate enough for water buffalo, if the shooter does his part.

    Australian Water Buffalo range:







    I'm curious, what's a good trophy water buffalo? I mean, like, obviously the size of his horns; how big? Like a trophy mule deer would probably be 30" or better. A moose, depending on the species; 54"-60". I've read a lot about the African cape buffalo, but not the Australian water buffalo. Is it considered dangerous game?
    This is what I pulled off the web from a guiding outfit I'm considering. I have some Emails out, and I'm waiting for replies. The wife and I didn't decide on this until just before I posted the thread.

    Water Buffalo Hunting Safaris

    Water Buffalo Hunting Safairs GalleryThe game reserve has Water Buffalo in very plentiful numbers. This is Australia's premier big game animal and deserves the highest level of respect when hunting. These animals are extremely tough and difficult to put down and are every bit as tough as the African Cape buffalo, if not more! Buffalo charges can and do, occur! On average, I deal with at least 1 serious charge each year at Carmor Plains. Minimum recommended calibre is 338 Win Mag. We hunt Buffalo with the help of a 4wd or ATV either by finding fresh tracks that cross the road or spotting lone bulls out on the plains. Then we follow up on foot and get closer to the animal for a better look! Shooting ranges can vary from 20 metres in the thick rainforests and up to 100 metres on the open plains.

    The horns of a mature buffalo bull measure from tip to tip direct, 95 - 150cm (38"- 60") wide! With a length of 68 - 90cm (27"- 36") of each horn. The diameter at the base varies from 40 - 48cm (16"- 19"). A Water Buffalo bull weighs on average between 700 and 800 kg, but in exceptional cases they can weigh up to a 1000kg (2400lbs)!
    Being that I'm somewhat old fashioned, and as my aussie kin say, "a bit of a sport, willing to have a go" I find the single shot rifle more traditional and sporting. My wife is afraid I'm going to be turned into a greasespot on the plain. If that does in fact happen, at least I was doing something I like.

    Since Australia doesn't allow handguns to be brought in for hunting I am stuck using a rifle. My "dream hunt" is Cape with a handgun. Now that would be sporting. My buddy took his Cape with a bow and arrow. I have no desire to use a bow and arrow.

    Biker
    Last edited by BikerRN; November 15th, 2009 at 01:00 AM. Reason: typo

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,749
    So, have you already obtained your Ruger No. 1?

    There's the Tropical model:



    Available in .375 H&H.

    Then the Medium Sporter:



    Available in .45-70.

    I think your choice to go with the No. 1 is great. Are you going to use glass or irons?

    And just for the fun of it, what would you use if you could use a handgun?
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  11. #41
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    So, have you already obtained your Ruger No. 1?

    There's the Tropical model:



    Available in .375 H&H.

    Then the Medium Sporter:



    Available in .45-70.

    I think your choice to go with the No. 1 is great. Are you going to use glass or irons?

    And just for the fun of it, what would you use if you could use a handgun?
    I'll use glass, although not decided yet on what I will use. I'll start going through the various literature I have and make my decision. I'm actually playing with the idea of using an EO Tech, as that's what I have on my most shot rifle and I'm quite comfortable with it out to 300 Yards on a human toso target. I zero at 200 Yards on my AR. I may do the same with the .375, as it seems to provide the best POA/POI out to about 250 yards with that round, before having to use hold-over.

    As for a handgun, until recently the .454 was the only one in contention. Now I will have to give some consideration to the newer calibers that have recently been introduced.

    Biker

  12. #42
    VIP Member
    Array goawayfarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Fork Union, Virginia
    Posts
    2,695
    I also would suggest the Guide Gun! I have one & it is AWESOME. Accuracy is good as well! It's also about half the price of the Ruger. Ammunition is available for just about any application. The rifle is shorter than the #1 & a little lighter. Plus, followup shots are way easier than a single-shot!

    With the money you save you could add some high quality glass to it!

    Love mine!

    The Ruger's are beauties though........
    Attached Images
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    Was looking through the 2009 Savage catalog today and noted they have model that supports 375 H&H as well.

    I've read through the same catalog probably 50 times this year and nver before noted support for 375 H&H.
    If not for this thread it would have continued to gone unnoticed.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  14. #44
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    Wow, I have really enjoyed reading this thread! Personally, I've never hunted anything larger than white tail which I love my .30-06 for. Although I've taken a couple deer with my old Ruger mini-thirty and my Mossberg 12 ga, I prefer the 06.

    I have been invited to hunt elk in CO. and would love to try that in the next couple of years.

    If you do make the trip, we expect some cool photo's!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #45
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South of North, North of South
    Posts
    654
    As fine of a caliber as the 45-70 is, I think the 375 H&H is in a different league.
    I agree, the 45-70 is a great classic round, but it doesn't really compete with the great classic 375H&H. Now, I'm not saying it can't be done with a 45-70, no doubt it can, the 375H&H is just more versatile.

    If you look at the 45-70 Hornady LeverEvolution 325 grain ammo, which has a major trajectory improvement over regular 45-70 ammo, zeroed in at 150 yds (their recommendation) you get:
    Muzzle-2050fps/3032ft-lbs, at 300yds-1225fps/1083ft-lbs with 27.8 inch drop.

    If you look at the 375H&H Hornady 270 grain zeroed at 200 yds (again per Hornady's reccomendation) you get:
    Muzzle-2700fps/4370ft-lbs, at 300yds-2012fps/2425ft-lbs with 9.2 inch drop, at 400yds-1811fps/1967ft-lbs with 26 inch drop.
    Jump to the 375H&H Hornady 300 grain zeroed in at 200 (again per Hornady) and you get:
    Muzzle-2685fps/4801ft-lbs, at 300yds-1800fps/2125ft-lbs with 10.5inch drop, at 400yds-1554fps/1668ft-lbs with 31.9 inch drop.

    Essentially, you add a hundred yards with the same trajectory drop and nearly double the energy even with the 100yd increase. At 500yds the 375H&H has more energy than a 45-70 at 300yds.

    Hornady also makes Superformance ammo for the 375H&H, which does even better, that would have probably been a better comparison to to Hornady's flagship 45-70 ammo, the LeverEvolution.

    Will the 45-70 work? abosolutely!, as nearly all of have said on here before, "You put the bullet where it counts and the caliber doesn't matter that much"

    However, when a buffalo is charging you, you probably want a little more than just enough

    I've got a 375H&H Remington 700, recoil isn't that bad, noticeably less than my Mossberg 835 3 1/2 inch magnum turkey gun.

    But I don't think a 45-70's recoil is that bad either. I gotta go with the 375H&H-it's in a whole other league compared to the 45-70.

    P.S.-I called Remington to see what they recommended for a scope due to the recoil, they recommend Nikon. I put a Nikon 3-9x40mm and its has held up wonderfully.

    Good luck with either you chose (make it easy on yourself and just get two rifles/both calibers) and enjoy your hunting trip!!
    My heroes are Veterans and My Father (who was a veteran).

    I believe prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance should have REMAINED in schools, and the Ten Commandments should have REMAINED in schools, courthouses, and everywhere else it was before the ACLU got involved.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Minimum Carry Caliber vs Primary Carry Caliber
    By Arisin Wind in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: October 18th, 2009, 11:52 AM
  2. Water heater tanks for water storage for emergencies...
    By Tangle in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: April 9th, 2008, 07:39 AM
  3. 40 caliber versus 45 caliber for home defense?
    By Sneaky in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: January 11th, 2008, 12:24 PM
  4. Sig 229 -40 caliber verus Sig 239- 40 caliber
    By Sneaky in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: December 8th, 2007, 09:48 AM
  5. water, water everywhere but not a drop to drink...
    By artz in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: April 12th, 2006, 05:12 PM

Search tags for this page

45-70 ballistics

,
45-70 ballistics ruger
,

45-70 caliber

,
45-70 scope
,
45-70 vs 375 h&h
,
caliber 45-70
,

marlin 1895 sbl

,

marlin 1895 sbl scope

,

marlin 1895 scope

,
marlin 1895sbl
,
marlin 45-70
,
scope for 45-70 marlin
Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors